Fiat/Chrysler says they will be making an Electric Ram.

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Yah. Some valid points there. It will be an interesting decade. But all manufacturers need to start thinking long term as some countries, states, provinces already have laws in place banning new sales of anything with a tail pipe. I don’t much about auto industry ramp up periods but if car companies don’t want to lose market share they will have to be ready. Toyota is being looked at as extremely vulnerable as Britain, California and some fairly big regions of Europe start in 2035. BC and Quebec are 2040. Oregon and Washington are kicking 2035 and 2040 around right now. I think Norway is 2035 as well. There is a website out there with all the dates but can’t seem to find it.

Interesting times.

Cheers.

The N. American 1/2 ton trucks really don't sell in Europe or UK. At least not in numbers big enough for the manufacturers to care.

2040 is at least a couple model generations out, so no reason to expect a panic move by the Big 3. Sure they will dabble but a PHEV that works and sells will settle down most moderate politicians enough that the extremists get voted down.

Yah I suppose. We see a lot of trucks in Britain though. Not sure of the manufacturers. Like you said though. Lots of time to adapt.

Reisender wrote:
Yah. Some valid points there. It will be an interesting decade. But all manufacturers need to start thinking long term as some countries, states, provinces already have laws in place banning new sales of anything with a tail pipe. I don’t much about auto industry ramp up periods but if car companies don’t want to lose market share they will have to be ready. Toyota is being looked at as extremely vulnerable as Britain, California and some fairly big regions of Europe start in 2035. BC and Quebec are 2040. Oregon and Washington are kicking 2035 and 2040 around right now. I think Norway is 2035 as well. There is a website out there with all the dates but can’t seem to find it.

Interesting times.

Cheers.

The N. American 1/2 ton trucks really don't sell in Europe or UK. At least not in numbers big enough for the manufacturers to care.

2040 is at least a couple model generations out, so no reason to expect a panic move by the Big 3. Sure they will dabble but a PHEV that works and sells will settle down most moderate politicians enough that the extremists get voted down.

wilber1 wrote:

Reisender wrote:


It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.

Up until lately the PSA CEO has been luke warm on EV's, saying they are selling cars to addicts because when the government subsidies stop so do sales. They see the writing on the wall however and PSA is developing its own EV platform to use batteries from 60 to 100KW dubbed eVMP, with production starting in 2023.

FCA recently announced it is opening an new plant in Windsor Ontario that will be dedicated to PHEV and EV production. It will be producing vehicles in 2024. One guess who's platform they will be using for EV's.

That seems to be the sweet spot for battery size. The most popular Tesla’s are around 75 KW which is good for about 350 miles or 560 km EPA range.

Cheers.

Reisender wrote:


It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.

Up until lately the PSA CEO has been luke warm on EV's, saying they are selling cars to addicts because when the government subsidies stop so do sales. They see the writing on the wall however and PSA is developing its own EV platform to use batteries from 60 to 100KW dubbed eVMP, with production starting in 2023.

FCA recently announced it is opening an new plant in Windsor Ontario that will be dedicated to PHEV and EV production. It will be producing vehicles in 2024. One guess who's platform they will be using for EV's.

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.

Battery production for large scale production of EVs is the biggest limitation for manufacturers (beyond actually getting people to buy them).

A plug in hybrid goes a long way to solve this. The battery bank to provide a 30mile range is 1/10th the size of a bank that will provide 300mile range, so for the same battery supply, they can outfit 10 times as many trucks.

A plug in hybrid is a bit more complicated but they've already worked out most of the details on smaller vehicles and those other parts are better under the manufacturers control to ramp up production numbers.

Agreed. The test drive will be key. Will people want the hybrid with a tail pipe, higher operating costs and likely poorer performance over the full BEV? Time will tell. But in the car market at least, full BEV growth is outpacing PHEV in many regions now.

Time will tell but outside purists, most won't care if it has a tail pipe. I suspect the truck market will be less about the purist and more about the practicality. Most pickups are used as commuter cars with an occasional longer weekend trip or pickup up some mulch at the garden center type use. PHEV would be a perfect match for that.

Operating costs and performance is unlikely to be significantly different. Modern ICE are incredibly reliable and major repairs are rare. No reason to expect anything less of the ICE in a PHEV. Assuming it's mostly used for commuting, you will likely be looking at a $25 oil change once a year (maybe every 2-3years) for at least a decade. Performance as measured by range, will be an easy sell for the PHEV. No reason to expect worse acceleration for PHEV (heck modern trucks are so massively overpowered, it's silly regardless of power train). BEV Cars sales are still anemic and mostly a function of govt rules and kickbacks favoring BEV over PHEV.

None of the manufacturers are going to risk their flagship 1/2ton pickup lines with an anemic truck in terms of acceleration...BEV or PHEV. Too much at stake if it's a slug.

Yah. Some valid points there. It will be an interesting decade. But all manufacturers need to start thinking long term as some countries, states, provinces already have laws in place banning new sales of anything with a tail pipe. I don’t much about auto industry ramp up periods but if car companies don’t want to lose market share they will have to be ready. Toyota is being looked at as extremely vulnerable as Britain, California and some fairly big regions of Europe start in 2035. BC and Quebec are 2040. Oregon and Washington are kicking 2035 and 2040 around right now. I think Norway is 2035 as well. There is a website out there with all the dates but can’t seem to find it.

Interesting times.

Cheers.

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.

Battery production for large scale production of EVs is the biggest limitation for manufacturers (beyond actually getting people to buy them).

A plug in hybrid goes a long way to solve this. The battery bank to provide a 30mile range is 1/10th the size of a bank that will provide 300mile range, so for the same battery supply, they can outfit 10 times as many trucks.

A plug in hybrid is a bit more complicated but they've already worked out most of the details on smaller vehicles and those other parts are better under the manufacturers control to ramp up production numbers.

Agreed. The test drive will be key. Will people want the hybrid with a tail pipe, higher operating costs and likely poorer performance over the full BEV? Time will tell. But in the car market at least, full BEV growth is outpacing PHEV in many regions now.

Time will tell but outside purists, most won't care if it has a tail pipe. I suspect the truck market will be less about the purist and more about the practicality. Most pickups are used as commuter cars with an occasional longer weekend trip or pickup up some mulch at the garden center type use. PHEV would be a perfect match for that.

Operating costs and performance is unlikely to be significantly different. Modern ICE are incredibly reliable and major repairs are rare. No reason to expect anything less of the ICE in a PHEV. Assuming it's mostly used for commuting, you will likely be looking at a $25 oil change once a year (maybe every 2-3years) for at least a decade. Performance as measured by range, will be an easy sell for the PHEV. No reason to expect worse acceleration for PHEV (heck modern trucks are so massively overpowered, it's silly regardless of power train). BEV Cars sales are still anemic and mostly a function of govt rules and kickbacks favoring BEV over PHEV.

None of the manufacturers are going to risk their flagship 1/2ton pickup lines with an anemic truck in terms of acceleration...BEV or PHEV. Too much at stake if it's a slug.

A Chrysler with complicated electrical components? I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.

Battery production for large scale production of EVs is the biggest limitation for manufacturers (beyond actually getting people to buy them).

A plug in hybrid goes a long way to solve this. The battery bank to provide a 30mile range is 1/10th the size of a bank that will provide 300mile range, so for the same battery supply, they can outfit 10 times as many trucks.

A plug in hybrid is a bit more complicated but they've already worked out most of the details on smaller vehicles and those other parts are better under the manufacturers control to ramp up production numbers.

Agreed. The test drive will be key. Will people want the hybrid with a tail pipe, higher operating costs and likely poorer performance over the full BEV? Time will tell. But in the car market at least, full BEV growth is outpacing PHEV in many regions now.

Reisender wrote:
It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.

Battery production for large scale production of EVs is the biggest limitation for manufacturers (beyond actually getting people to buy them).

A plug in hybrid goes a long way to solve this. The battery bank to provide a 30mile range is 1/10th the size of a bank that will provide 300mile range, so for the same battery supply, they can outfit 10 times as many trucks.

A plug in hybrid is a bit more complicated but they've already worked out most of the details on smaller vehicles and those other parts are better under the manufacturers control to ramp up production numbers.

dodge guy wrote:
The truck will be either a plug in hybrid like the Pacifica, or a full in electric. They just haven’t decided yet. I’m guessing it will be full on electric.
But it is happening!
FCA has the $$$$ to Invest now That their 3rd quarter earnings show a profit of 1.4B! So we will
See what they come up with over the next year!

It will take a significant commitment though. GM is finding this out with their Ultium battery factory. Battery production capacity is everything for full up EV production. I suspect FCA will be paying a lot of money to Tesla for the next few years. And maybe that’s the right business model for them. Although sooner or later it will be illegal to sell anything with a tail pipe. Or even drive it into a city which is already getting common in Europe.