Ford vs. Ram vs. GM Diesel HP/TQ Ratings

I am a hardcore Cummins fan, owned several of every generation since 1993-first gen. I have a 2021 3500 HO Aisin, there is plenty of room for improvement. The Cummins and the exhaust brake are flawless, the transmission not so much.

The Aisin isn't terrible, just not the ultimate transmission so many make it out to be. My 2017 with the 68 RFE wasn't really much worse when towing 15K plus. I don't know if that's saying a lot about the 68 RFE or little about the Aisin.

I am the odd minority that wants a manual transmission, I never had a complaint about any of the manual trucks I owned. I would jump all over a quality manual transmission option, I know those days are past and probably never see that option again in a new diesel pickup.

Bionic Man wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
" It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge." Please explain.

Two trans and two power outputs have been very successful.

Very successful by what definition?

I would like to hear that one , His Asin has been on the shop floor , and countless 68RFE's. How often do you even read about GM or Ford tranny issues in comparison . The Ford has not had transmission issues since the end of the 4R100, that was 2002. 2003 they had the 5R100 I believe ,and have never looked back on transmission issues . Actually the 4R100 was more an insufficient cooling system, that was easily corrected later on with the 6.0 cooler .

Ram could take a lesson from the other two on transmissions .

^^^They could put the Z8hp in their pickups and continue to use the Aisin in the chassis cabs. More than likely if they introduce a trans with more gears they will flatten out the torque curve to get the Hp of the Cummins inline with the competition. GM is talking about a 500 hp Duramax and according to how the Ford performs the Powerstroke is already producing over 500 ponies. If Ram is going to offer 500 hp and wants to continue to use 6 gears and an engine with a 36% torque rise the Cummins would need to be tuned to make nearly 1300 foot lbs of torque.

FishOnOne wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.

In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.

The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.

A version of the Z 8HP works in the Demon. I’m sure with adjustments it could work in the Cummins. Or, heaven forbid, go the route that GM did with the current “Allison”.

And how much inefficiency do they have with two output engines and two separate transmissions for the same truck?

I don't believe that transmission is designed for a PTO provision.

Good point. How would an outsourced transmission be more cost prohibitive than a outsourced engine? Or the current Aisin for that matter?

Bionic Man wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.

In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.

The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.

A version of the Z 8HP works in the Demon. I’m sure with adjustments it could work in the Cummins. Or, heaven forbid, go the route that GM did with the current “Allison”.

And how much inefficiency do they have with two output engines and two separate transmissions for the same truck?

I don't believe that transmission is designed for a PTO provision.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
" It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge." Please explain.

Two trans and two power outputs have been very successful.

Very successful by what definition?

FishOnOne wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.

In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.

The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.

A version of the Z 8HP works in the Demon. I’m sure with adjustments it could work in the Cummins. Or, heaven forbid, go the route that GM did with the current “Allison”.

And how much inefficiency do they have with two output engines and two separate transmissions for the same truck?

" It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge." Please explain.

Two trans and two power outputs have been very successful.

Bionic Man wrote:
More gears isn’t all about getting to the top of a hill (that most people will never traverse anyway) faster. It’s the driving experience. I really don’t understand why that is hard for some people to acknowledge.

In addition, aside from the marketing aspect, moving to a better transmission with more gears would allow RAM to run one tranny instead of two, and one engine output level, and be competitive power wise in the 2500 again. Pretty silly for them to hold onto the current strategy.

The problem is I don't think Stelantis has transmission engineers so that means Ram will again have to outsource the transmission and if that transmission is only used in Ram HD trucks it will be extremely expensive.

4x4ord wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Ron,

8 so has a 4.3 first gear, 10 in the 4.5 relm, compared to your 3.5ish first gear. Better starting gearing. Less pedal easier starts especially on steep grades.
I have not compared as closely on mid to top gears, possibly spaced closer, so assuming your like me, if I can't pull in OF, but in direct I could go redline, but back off to 2800 or so with past diesels, a taller ratio in trans will allow to go faster up a hill.
No one is saying per say your combo is BAD. But from past experience going from 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 and a 7 sp, when the gears are closer together, yet over all splits are wider, even with the sam motor up front, performance, mpg etc is better.
Think about how much better your current rig is vs last one with the 4 sp auto.

Marty

Marty you should set behind my wheel and tell me my truck does not launch flawlessly WITHOUT shudder. I towed my Son's 15 AISIN 3.42 at 28k combined starting on some steep grades without issue and took off flawlessly. I tow in 6th most of the time until getting into the hills. It's just not going to make a hill if beans difference.

Throw the HO 22 Cummins in my truck I am sure it would get to the top faster but by how much. Don't think I would be wishing for more gears.

You’re right that more gears are not going to make much difference in the time it takes for the Ram to get to the top of the hill. With 4.10 gears the Cummins can be kept in the 2100 to 2800 rpm range using just 3rd and 4th gear from 36 mph in 3rd all the way to 65 mph in 4th. The new Cummins is capable of making about 395 hp at 2100 rpm. So using just 3rd and 4th gears the Cummins can deliver 395 to 420 hp at all times. Another way of saying this is that from 36 to 65 mph the Cummins can be kept within 94% of its peak HP output.

Compare that to the Duramax:
The Duramax has very little torque rise meaning the power drops off much more significantly with the loss of engine rpm. To keep the Duramax running within 94% of its peak Hp rating you would need to run it above 2600 rpm …. hence the need for more gears.

So you’re right Ron more gears aren’t required to get the Cummins to perform but if you ever get the opportunity to pull your unit with a new F350 Platinum do it.

PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!!!! Nice you get it and back it up with FACTS instead of just saying the other guys have more gears so Cummins/RAM should also.

Thank you!!!