Fords 6.7 Scorpion Diesel motor

The Mad Norsky wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
I have no idea what happened in Ricatic's case. But we are hearing only one side of the issue. I'm not saying that he is wrong but that we just don't know. I followed it as it was posted here. But I have not heard many others saying they had the same problem. There was a period when some people reported problems but since then I don't recall hearing any. Maybe Ford started dealing better with the issue.

Like most others here I haven't had any major problems, the truck just went over 50K about half of that was towing our 5ver.

Would it help you to know that Ricatic is NOT the only member here on the forum to have his 6.7L Ford fuel pump destroy itself?????

There is another. I private messaged this individual. Ford, as with Ricatic, first attempted to deny this fellow warranty coverage. Claiming contaminated fuel, rust and so on.

But this one got lucky. He had an ace in the hole. Seems just before his debacle with Ford, he had taken his vehicle into the Ford dealership and had both fuel filters changed.

Since it was found on the Ford service records, they had painted themselves into a corner. So they in fact warranted this failure.

Mind you, this is a terrible ratio to have from the very small number of folks who post here to have two documented failures.

And this second subject was Canadian, running mostly if not all the better lubricity quality Canadian diesel fuel.

Despite all this, I remain convinced that if, IF Ford and Bosch have solved the CP 4.2 fuel pump problems in the latest (2015) and forward versions of the motor, it will be an excellent motor.

There IS supposed to be a difference in the fuel pumps in the 2015's, exactly what I do not know.

I know NHTSA has become involved with the VW and Bosch CP 4.1 pump. My fear is that someday we are going to hear about someone's Ford stalling while in the on ramp of a freeway and an 80,000 pound semi going right through their tailgate. It surely could happen, as it appears there is absolutely no warning of this about to happen until your motor stalls and your CEL light on the dash comes on.

Oh, and some may have noticed, but I no longer own my 6.7L Ford diesel. No problems, but I surely have a little more piece of mind driving around the country far from home now.

NHTSA is involved in both the CP4.1 and CP4.2 HPFP, as used in any Vee series motor... Be it the 3.0L V6TDI motor in 2009-2015 VW Touareg, Audi Q5 and Q7, A6, A7 and A8, as well as the Porsche Cayenne Diesel, and includes the V8 diesels in both GMC Chevy and Ford V8 3/4 ton and larger truck diesels. It is also in the RAM 1500 Ecodiesel motor too from 2014 on

agesilaus wrote:
I have no idea what happened in Ricatic's case. But we are hearing only one side of the issue. I'm not saying that he is wrong but that we just don't know. I followed it as it was posted here. But I have not heard many others saying they had the same problem. There was a period when some people reported problems but since then I don't recall hearing any. Maybe Ford started dealing better with the issue.

Like most others here I haven't had any major problems, the truck just went over 50K about half of that was towing our 5ver.

Would it help you to know that Ricatic is NOT the only member here on the forum to have his 6.7L Ford fuel pump destroy itself?????

There is another. I private messaged this individual. Ford, as with Ricatic, first attempted to deny this fellow warranty coverage. Claiming contaminated fuel, rust and so on.

But this one got lucky. He had an ace in the hole. Seems just before his debacle with Ford, he had taken his vehicle into the Ford dealership and had both fuel filters changed.

Since it was found on the Ford service records, they had painted themselves into a corner. So they in fact warranted this failure.

Mind you, this is a terrible ratio to have from the very small number of folks who post here to have two documented failures.

And this second subject was Canadian, running mostly if not all the better lubricity quality Canadian diesel fuel.

Despite all this, I remain convinced that if, IF Ford and Bosch have solved the CP 4.2 fuel pump problems in the latest (2015) and forward versions of the motor, it will be an excellent motor.

There IS supposed to be a difference in the fuel pumps in the 2015's, exactly what I do not know.

I know NHTSA has become involved with the VW and Bosch CP 4.1 pump. My fear is that someday we are going to hear about someone's Ford stalling while in the on ramp of a freeway and an 80,000 pound semi going right through their tailgate. It surely could happen, as it appears there is absolutely no warning of this about to happen until your motor stalls and your CEL light on the dash comes on.

Oh, and some may have noticed, but I no longer own my 6.7L Ford diesel. No problems, but I surely have a little more piece of mind driving around the country far from home now.

ricatic wrote:


They know that the 6.7 design engineer went all the way to Dearborn with the facts he obtained from FSE's and techs that evaluated the pump failure as he lobbied to get the truck fixed under warranty...they know that I received a personal email from him as he agonized over the sacrificial denial for the sake of dealership and FSE harmony...

I thought I had read all of your postings of trying to get your truck fixed, but I don't remember seeing the e-mail that the engineer sent. Could you repost this e-mail so we could see the engineers evaluation.

Thanks

To the ops question, 2012 and no problems. Pulls the fiver with no problems, like the comfort of the interior. First Ford diesel I have had, previously had a '02 and then '07 Duramax, but prefer the Ford.

NinerBikes wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
Not likely I had a GM before I got a Ford. That was before they became government motors

Do yourself a favor, Google up "Bosch CP 4HPFP failure" and read every piece you come across. Then get back to us... the only manufacturer that is owning up to the issue is GMC / Chevrolet, which is why you hardly see or hear a peep out of customers on the internet about GMC / Chevrolet. Because they pretty much warranty it, no questions asked, even though they've had failures.

If you read a bit more, you'd also know that Ricatic has a neighbor that was a former employee of Bosch, that knows the story. He no longer works for Bosch, probably a feeling of guilt working for such a crappy company when it comes to warranty repairs and owning up to it.

Volkswagen of America sends their wasted, failed HPFP's back to Bosch for remanufacturing, by the pallet. That's correct, by the pallet. No correction or changes to design. BTW, in the beginning, Bosch had a huge dirt contamination problem during assembly, with steps in QC being skipped, the micron size of the dirt or material from finish machining not being removed before final assembly, sometimes causing failure on the first tank of diesel fuel in VW sedan models, golf, jetta, jetta sportswagen, and Beetle, as well as the Audi A3.

And this is coming from a guy who thought the HPFP on the Ford engine was driven by a belt! :S

ricatic wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
I have no idea what happened in Ricatic's case. But we are hearing only one side of the issue. I'm not saying that he is wrong but that we just don't know. I followed it as it was posted here. But I have not heard many others saying they had the same problem. There was a period when some people reported problems but since then I don't recall hearing any. Maybe Ford started dealing better with the issue.

Like most others here I haven't had any major problems, the truck just went over 50K about half of that was towing our 5ver.

..and yet again my integrity is being challenged...those that followed the story from the beginning of the problem until my departure from the Blue Koolaid Crowd know how hard I worked to obtain a warranty repair from Ford...They know that the 6.7 design engineer went all the way to Dearborn with the facts he obtained from FSE's and techs that evaluated the pump failure as he lobbied to get the truck fixed under warranty...they know that I received a personal email from him as he agonized over the sacrificial denial for the sake of dealership and FSE harmony...they know that the part used to deny warranty was replaced during the first three attempts to repaiur under the auspices of warranty...they know that the so called rust tattletale on the part is not in the fuel flow at all...it is external to the fuel flow...they know that dealership number 2 completely discredited and rebuffed the WIF claim...

...but yet again...the Blue Kool Aid Crowd continues to try to use the tired old line that "we only have one side of the story" to impeach my credibility...

Ninerbikes hits the nail directly on the head when he tell of all manufacturers using the Bosch CP4.xx series HPFP as having problems...they all do...VW lost a battle with NHTSA over the pump and was forced to warranty them all or face recall...Porsche calls it fragile or delicate...but a major difference exists between Ford and all the other manufacturers...and it is a biggie...everyone but Ford warranties them all no questions asked...Ford warranties none of them without a long drawn out process that's only purpose is to shift the burden onto the customer...and most times they are successful...

This situation should give pause to anyone considering a HD pickup purchase...it already has for hundreds of buyers who have seen the facts without the Blue KoolAid filter...and bought a truck with a proven driveline and a warranty...

Just the facts...but my haters will find a way to explain them away...

Regards

I whole heartedly disagree with Rick... I know/read of several pump failures that Ford covered under warranty. The techs follow a simple procedure and look for rust inside the pump. If there's rust it's contaminated fuel and no further work is done, if the pump is free of rust it's been covered under warrenty.

I've also read a thread on the Duramax forum some time ago on a CP4.2 failure and the first thing GM wanted to know was the fuel contaminated? The final outcome the fuel and the pump was clean therefore warranty covered it.

The bottom line is I just don't read or hear of a lot of these pumps failing in the GM or Ford, and if a pump does fail for contaminated fuel no manufacturer will warrenty a repair plain and simple.

agesilaus wrote:
Not likely I had a GM before I got a Ford. That was before they became government motors

Do yourself a favor, Google up "Bosch CP 4HPFP failure" and read every piece you come across. Then get back to us... the only manufacturer that is owning up to the issue is GMC / Chevrolet, which is why you hardly see or hear a peep out of customers on the internet about GMC / Chevrolet. Because they pretty much warranty it, no questions asked, even though they've had failures.

If you read a bit more, you'd also know that Ricatic has a neighbor that was a former employee of Bosch, that knows the story. He no longer works for Bosch, probably a feeling of guilt working for such a crappy company when it comes to warranty repairs and owning up to it.

Volkswagen of America sends their wasted, failed HPFP's back to Bosch for remanufacturing, by the pallet. That's correct, by the pallet. No correction or changes to design. BTW, in the beginning, Bosch had a huge dirt contamination problem during assembly, with steps in QC being skipped, the micron size of the dirt or material from finish machining not being removed before final assembly, sometimes causing failure on the first tank of diesel fuel in VW sedan models, golf, jetta, jetta sportswagen, and Beetle, as well as the Audi A3.

NinerBikes wrote:

It's a Bosch problem, all vehicles with a Bosch CP4.1 for an inline 4 or CP4.2 for a V-6 or V-8 engine, VW, Audi, Ford, Chevy, GMC, they all have failed catastrophically, grenading the whole fuel system, and everything that the fuel touches. Bosch failed to do failure analysis on this pump model. Quite convenient how much money they make in parts on a failure, it's obscene. Of course, Ford too, profits on this failed venture, huge mark up on all the fuel injection and fuel system parts ruined.

Sounds to me like it is a customer problem.

agesilaus wrote:
I have no idea what happened in Ricatic's case. But we are hearing only one side of the issue. I'm not saying that he is wrong but that we just don't know. I followed it as it was posted here. But I have not heard many others saying they had the same problem. There was a period when some people reported problems but since then I don't recall hearing any. Maybe Ford started dealing better with the issue.

Like most others here I haven't had any major problems, the truck just went over 50K about half of that was towing our 5ver.

I have researched the Bosch CP4.2 debacle in every truck, SUV and sedan that it is installed in in the USA here. You can do a search on NHTSA 11003 EA for Engineering Analysis. I've pretty much read everything every manufacturer that uses this HPFP has had to provide, except the redacted portions of communications. The Bosch HPFP has a design defect, IMHO. Don't rev the motor hard or high, you'll float the pistons and rollers in that HPFP, and the following roller will float and lose alignment with the cam, and then your problems start and end with failure. IMHO, it is a defective design. Bosch's claim of self aligning is pure BS, it's such a problem that VW did a hush hush and had Delphi redesign the HPFP in a smaller verson with a rectangular following foot for the piston bore, versus a round one, that is problematic with the Bosch design. Delphi DFP 6 HPFP link

The Delphi system

The standard line from Ford, or VW, or Audi, or Porsche is that "Your fuel is contaminated". Of course it's contaminated, ask them to specify what it is contaminated with, and that you demand that they show you the contamination that CAUSED the failure, not contamination as a RESULT of the failure. It's contaminated with bits of metal from a Bosch HPFP that ate itself alive while failing. Metal Swarf, like the pump is a machine shop cutting metal. All Bosch material that contaminated your whole complete fuel system, with no way of getting it all out and recontaminating your new HPFP again, unless you replace everything that metal swarf loaded contaminated diesel fuel touched.






VW, AUDI, and Ford have used the deny, deny, deny tactic, to pad their bottom line. Do yourself a favor, pay the core charge to keep that HPFP and take it you your attorney if you feel like suing, you'll need it as evidence. Might have to pay for some time of a Failure Analysis Engineer to testify, but you'll hand Ford their walking papers and set a precedent for future losses when they deny it. Also, file a Complaint with NHTSA if you ever lose a HPFP on you 2011 or later ford 6.7 diesel, and reference EA11003, to be added to the Bosch pump list of failures.

If you dropped the ad hominem attacks you might get a more sympathetic hearing. I'm not claiming your version of events is false as I stated above. I never accept any account as being the one true version after hearing one side.

agesilaus wrote:
I have no idea what happened in Ricatic's case. But we are hearing only one side of the issue. I'm not saying that he is wrong but that we just don't know. I followed it as it was posted here. But I have not heard many others saying they had the same problem. There was a period when some people reported problems but since then I don't recall hearing any. Maybe Ford started dealing better with the issue.

Like most others here I haven't had any major problems, the truck just went over 50K about half of that was towing our 5ver.

..and yet again my integrity is being challenged...those that followed the story from the beginning of the problem until my departure from the Blue Koolaid Crowd know how hard I worked to obtain a warranty repair from Ford...They know that the 6.7 design engineer went all the way to Dearborn with the facts he obtained from FSE's and techs that evaluated the pump failure as he lobbied to get the truck fixed under warranty...they know that I received a personal email from him as he agonized over the sacrificial denial for the sake of dealership and FSE harmony...they know that the part used to deny warranty was replaced during the first three attempts to repaiur under the auspices of warranty...they know that the so called rust tattletale on the part is not in the fuel flow at all...it is external to the fuel flow...they know that dealership number 2 completely discredited and rebuffed the WIF claim...

...but yet again...the Blue Kool Aid Crowd continues to try to use the tired old line that "we only have one side of the story" to impeach my credibility...

Ninerbikes hits the nail directly on the head when he tell of all manufacturers using the Bosch CP4.xx series HPFP as having problems...they all do...VW lost a battle with NHTSA over the pump and was forced to warranty them all or face recall...Porsche calls it fragile or delicate...but a major difference exists between Ford and all the other manufacturers...and it is a biggie...everyone but Ford warranties them all no questions asked...Ford warranties none of them without a long drawn out process that's only purpose is to shift the burden onto the customer...and most times they are successful...

This situation should give pause to anyone considering a HD pickup purchase...it already has for hundreds of buyers who have seen the facts without the Blue KoolAid filter...and bought a truck with a proven driveline and a warranty...

Just the facts...but my haters will find a way to explain them away...

Regards