Gas engine and Diesel of same specs.Pull the same.

4x4ord wrote:
It is the turbo that is giving the diesel the high torque output...not the fuel type, but diesels lend themselves much more readily to turbocharging than gasoline engines do. There may be a day that the eccoboost will be king but for now it is clearly the turbo diesel.

Or it could be that diesels are pretty useless without a turbo charger, at least for RV towing.

I've owned several gas turbos and they are great. My present one betters my Cummins when it comes to torque output per liter of displacement and over quite a bit larger RPM range.

I doubt turbo gassers like the eccoboost will replace the diesel because diesel technology will continue to develop as well but I would be very surprised if we don't see more direct injection turbo gassers like eccoboost offered as an option in tow vehicles.

Hannibal wrote:
I agree with you 4x4ord but what's wrong with a gas engine running 3200rpm? Back before O/D was implemented not for towing or the faint of heart but instead for CAFE requirements, we used to run 3k~ rpm or more everywhere we went on the interstates. 3k rpm is nothing for those run forever 4cyl Hondas and Toyotas. My '98 12v 5spd/4.10 Cummins used to run 2500rpm at 70mph towing or not. 74mph was against the governor and that was all it could do. Didn't and won't hurt a thing. Higher rpm puts less stress on the engine, not more. Turbo chargers force more air into the engine increasing the compression ratio which makes more torque. That's a good thing. They also allow rpmaphobes to lug their engines when higher rpm would be better for the engine.

The problem with running a 6.2 gasoline engine at 3200 rpm while cruising down the highway and only making 100 hp is this:

The 3200 rpm is dictating how much air the engine is desiring to pump through it; roughly, 3200rpm x 6.2 liters = about 20,000 liters per min. To make 100 HP the engine can only use roughly 14,000 liters per min so the throttle plate will be run partially closed to restrict the amount of incoming air and therefore fuel .... in a way the throttle plate is performing the job of an exhaust brake, only restricting the intake air instead of the exhaust gas. Ideal for this gas engine would be to slow the engine down more so that it is not working against the throttle plate so hard...it needs more gears.

With the turbo charged diesel engine running at 1600 rpm the turbo will not push an excessive amount of air into the slow running engine but will attempt to ensure there is at least enough air to burn the fuel required to make the necessary HP.

Bottom line is that although 3200 rpm is not necessarily hard on the engine it is hard on the engine's efficiency.

transamz9 wrote:

Where did I say that it shifts under 2500 with heavy throttle? I said it does it and I'm not putting around. There is not really any place to legally "put my foot in it". Yes I do own one and if you need proof just tell me how you want me to give it. Cold hard facts! I know that's what you want. I can take a picture of when I hit the Start button it comes across the dash "Gary's Corvette". It's a 2005 LS2 with 4 speed auto, 3.73:1. It has 400 hp and 400 lb/ft and weighs right at 3500 pounds. Need a picture too?

On another note, have fun camping and be safe out there! Oh yeah, I hope you can get a good tail wind going and coming too. LOL!

Thanks! Beautiful Corvette. 400hp and 400ft/lbs with a 3.73 would make a helluva tow vehicle engine for me.
I always wish for a tail wind gas or diesel. It helps with fuel mileage. I just dropped some coin on four Firestone Transforce HT's, 30 lbs of LP, two batteries for the truck and 5th wheel and a new WeberQ for the brats. Can't wait to head out.:C

bmanning wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Why not say 5mpg for the gasser and 17mpg for the diesel. I get 8.5~ mpg with the gassers and 10.5~mpg with the diesels towing over the same routes at the same speeds.

For the cost of a ticking fuel injection system on a newer diesel, I can toss in a new long block and transmission so the cost savings is a gamble in the long run. The 100k mile warranty goes poof at around four years with me.

Not to forget the cost of DEF, fuel filters and special fuel conditioners for the delicate HPFP.

I haven't been banned from buying my 7th diesel. As it is, the only real practical benefit I see is 30% lower rpm. And that's only if you're erroneously afraid of a gas engine running in it's normal rpm range. 3800rpm is peak torque rpm with my wheezing 5.4L grocery getter. It can run there all day under load if it ever needs to without worry. As it is, it's only an occasional sprint at that rpm. On flat ground we run 2k rpm in O/D and 2600~rpm against any breeze or slight incline. Not a problem.:B

Why do people gear their diesels like a gasser so it'll run like a diesel? Why not a 3.08 rear ratio to put it at it's 1600rpm torque peak?

Hannibal I put a lot of weight in your responses because you have been there, done that with diesel AND gas...your input can't be tossed aside with a simple "if you towed with a diesel you'd understand" dismissal.

I should be more patient. I remember my first diesel. Then my first Cummins diesel. I understood 100%. I bored family and friends to tears with how wonderful it was. Once the novelty wore off, it was just a noisy engine that couldn't rev. Now they're prohibitively expensive to buy and repair. The love is still there but not enough to overcome the ticking.
I'm hurt that no one wants to answer my question.:B

transamz9 wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
I agree with you 4x4ord but what's wrong with a gas engine running 3200rpm? Back before O/D was implemented not for towing or the faint of heart but instead for CAFE requirements, we used to run 3k~ rpm or more everywhere we went on the interstates. 3k rpm is nothing for those run forever 4cyl Hondas and Toyotas. My '98 12v 5spd/4.10 Cummins used to run 2500rpm at 70mph towing or not. 74mph was against the governor and that was all it could do. Didn't and won't hurt a thing. Higher rpm puts less stress on the engine, not more. Turbo chargers force more air into the engine increasing the compression ratio which makes more torque. That's a good thing. They also allow rpmaphobes to lug their engines when higher rpm would be better for the engine.

IDK how you figure we are "Lugging" or engines. For one, an auto transmission will not let it lug. At 74 MPH my little car engine is running 2000 RPM and I'm sure the new one are running less than that. My Cummins has been well over 100MPH and your old '95 would have too if tuned to do so. I think you need to go take you some rides in the new diesels but be careful, you might just have to walk out without your old gasser.

Have no doubt I would like a new Cummins Ram. But I need a truck that doesn't require down time for "issues" as I use my truck for work ~95% of the time. And it's not worth $8k to be able to tow at 30% lower rpm. I like the hot-rod sound so it's all good with me. The potential for horrendous repair bills is a turn off as well.
RPM at any speed is determined by gear ratio, not fuel type. You could gear yours to run at it's peak torque 1600rpm but you'd quickly realize the need for horsepower at the first hill where you'd need a lower overall gear ratio and "gasp" a downshift would occur. Odd thing is it would hurt absolutely nothing but to try to convince you of that is futile.
There was no "tuning" of the '95. I cranked out on the star wheel a few clicks to reduce turbo lag but other than replacing parts such as the fuel plate, fly weights and injectors, it's all mechanical. Even still, the 12v B Cummins was not going to run 3600 rpm without problems.
If I were going to buy one today, it would likely be this one.

http://www.daytonandrews.net/new/Ram/2013-Ram-2500-clearwater-fl-0c6e5c700a0a0002018f48a18d0f2227.htm

Hannibal wrote:
Why not say 5mpg for the gasser and 17mpg for the diesel. I get 8.5~ mpg with the gassers and 10.5~mpg with the diesels towing over the same routes at the same speeds.

For the cost of a ticking fuel injection system on a newer diesel, I can toss in a new long block and transmission so the cost savings is a gamble in the long run. The 100k mile warranty goes poof at around four years with me.

Not to forget the cost of DEF, fuel filters and special fuel conditioners for the delicate HPFP.

I haven't been banned from buying my 7th diesel. As it is, the only real practical benefit I see is 30% lower rpm. And that's only if you're erroneously afraid of a gas engine running in it's normal rpm range. 3800rpm is peak torque rpm with my wheezing 5.4L grocery getter. It can run there all day under load if it ever needs to without worry. As it is, it's only an occasional sprint at that rpm. On flat ground we run 2k rpm in O/D and 2600~rpm against any breeze or slight incline. Not a problem.:B

Why do people gear their diesels like a gasser so it'll run like a diesel? Why not a 3.08 rear ratio to put it at it's 1600rpm torque peak?

Hannibal I put a lot of weight in your responses because you have been there, done that with diesel AND gas...your input can't be tossed aside with a simple "if you towed with a diesel you'd understand" dismissal.

Hannibal wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

RPM does not scare me what's so ever and have no problem doing it when it's needed to do what I want to do. When I say that my car shifts at that RPM, it is not loafing by no means. Loafing it shifts at about 12-1400 just like my truck does. I'm not "irrational" about this I just know what I like in a tow vehicle. I drive a lot of trucks day in and day out and usually towing something or at least loaded. I will tell you this. Using all of the RPM your truck has to offer to make it to the top of the hill does not always give you the best results.

As far as the 454 remark, you know what I'm talking about. It was a towing machine compared to the other options in the same years. OH! I forget, you are one of those that like to come apples to oranges just like the post right above this one where you say that your little ole 5.4 will run circles around you "1995" turbo Cummins. So I guess your little ole 5.4 would run circles around my 2005 Cummins also. LOL! Dream on!

OH, BTW thanks for the English lesson, you really look smarter to me now.

If you're Corvette (if you really have one) shifts below 2500rpm under heavy throttle, something is wrong with it.
Using the rpm available when necessary has always giving me the best results both gas and diesel. If the hill requires peak hp rpm, then that's what's used.
The 454 as well as the Cummins was thought to be a towing machine in '95. Both are slugs compared to current Cummins Rams as well as small block gassers. Therefor, todays small block gassers are towing machines. And they're reliable and issue free.
Never said my 5.4L grocery getter would run circles around your little car engine '05 Cummins. That was your assertion, not mine. Not dreaming. We're loading up to go camping this week.
Tenga un buen dia!

Where did I say that it shifts under 2500 with heavy throttle? I said it does it and I'm not putting around. There is not really any place to legally "put my foot in it". Yes I do own one and if you need proof just tell me how you want me to give it. Cold hard facts! I know that's what you want. I can take a picture of when I hit the Start button it comes across the dash "Gary's Corvette". It's a 2005 LS2 with 4 speed auto, 3.73:1. It has 400 hp and 400 lb/ft and weighs right at 3500 pounds. Need a picture too?





On another note, have fun camping and be safe out there! Oh yeah, I hope you can get a good tail wind going and coming too. LOL!

Hannibal wrote:
I agree with you 4x4ord but what's wrong with a gas engine running 3200rpm? Back before O/D was implemented not for towing or the faint of heart but instead for CAFE requirements, we used to run 3k~ rpm or more everywhere we went on the interstates. 3k rpm is nothing for those run forever 4cyl Hondas and Toyotas. My '98 12v 5spd/4.10 Cummins used to run 2500rpm at 70mph towing or not. 74mph was against the governor and that was all it could do. Didn't and won't hurt a thing. Higher rpm puts less stress on the engine, not more. Turbo chargers force more air into the engine increasing the compression ratio which makes more torque. That's a good thing. They also allow rpmaphobes to lug their engines when higher rpm would be better for the engine.

IDK how you figure we are "Lugging" or engines. For one, an auto transmission will not let it lug. At 74 MPH my little car engine is running 2000 RPM and I'm sure the new one are running less than that. My Cummins has been well over 100MPH and your old '95 would have too if tuned to do so. I think you need to go take you some rides in the new diesels but be careful, you might just have to walk out without your old gasser.

I agree with you 4x4ord but what's wrong with a gas engine running 3200rpm? Back before O/D was implemented not for towing or the faint of heart but instead for CAFE requirements, we used to run 3k~ rpm or more everywhere we went on the interstates. 3k rpm is nothing for those run forever 4cyl Hondas and Toyotas. My '98 12v 5spd/4.10 Cummins used to run 2500rpm at 70mph towing or not. 74mph was against the governor and that was all it could do. Didn't and won't hurt a thing. Higher rpm puts less stress on the engine, not more. Turbo chargers force more air into the engine increasing the compression ratio which makes more torque. That's a good thing. They also allow rpmaphobes to lug their engines when higher rpm would be better for the engine.

It is the turbo that is giving the diesel the high torque output...not the fuel type, but diesels lend themselves much more readily to turbocharging than gasoline engines do. There may be a day that the eccoboost will be king but for now it is clearly the turbo diesel.