Gas engine and Diesel of same specs.Pull the same.

Now I get the point you were making. We had a Cummins in a farm tractor that didn't have the power to do the job we had for it. We phoned Cummins and asked them what could be done to that particular engine to get about a 20% increase in power out of it? they told us the only way we could do it was very expensive ... the camshaft needs to be changed followed by changing all the injectors. We didn't want to spend that kind of money so we turned the mechanical pump up to inject about 20 percent more fuel at full throttle and have been running the tractor like that ever since ,,, it smokes a little pulling up the hills but now it gets its job done.

It could be that if it was smoking all the time we would have saved enough money over the years to pay for the camshaft by following Cummin's recommendation and had the engine running a little more efficient.

Turtle, your arguing for the sake of arguing. What is your point? Obviously you know that fuel requires air in order to burn and more air allows for more fuel which yields more power. You can dump all the fuel you want into a 2 liter naturally aspirated diesel and there is no way you're going to get 600 hp out of it. When you care nothing about efficiency, as in a racing application, you will run at a lot higher fuel/air ratio which will produce smoke. So, yes, taking a road vehicle to the track and injecting more fuel without being overly concerned about more air will yield more power to a point but so what? Back on the road the fuel economy will drop to nonexistent, the DEF will plug solid and then what? The point is if you want more torque out of a diesel TV you need more air/revolution to allow for more fuel/revolution. Turbos accomplish that.

Not doing that at all. When someone makes an ignorant statement I'm going to call them on it. Simple as that.

When someone says that " Unburned fuel doesn't make power. It just makes smoke gas or diesel" that is an ignorant statement. Why? Because either almost every diesel puller and racer in the world is doing it wrong and has a bad tune or this persons statement is correct. Now seriously, who do you think is correct? And who cares if it's a race engine or a stock engine? It makes no difference. More smoke = more power, simple as that. If you don't believe that then go argue with the people that race diesels. You will get laughed out of the pits. Or you can argue with an old trucker that turned the fuel screw up. He will also laugh at you.

I never said you can get a infinite number of HP out of a diesel by throwing more fuel at it. What I did say is the more fuel you give a diesel the more power you get out of it. That is how a diesel works. It doesn't have a throttle plate. More fuel, more power, more fuel, more power. The limit is melting something, breaking something, or hydro lock.

Let say we have two exact mechanical diesels. 2 liter or 200 liter your choice. Turbo or non-turbo, your choice. Now, I turn the pump up on mine, it smokes more because it is getting more fuel. Which is going to make more power? My engine or yours?

Diesels are rated at fuel burned/hour. The EXACT engine can be rated at several different HP'ers. Take my 6.5L turbo engine. It is rated at 200 HP. There is the same engine rated at 180 HP. The only difference? They jack up the fuel in mine over the 180 HP model.

That is how they get more HP out of different engines. They throw more fuel to them. Most engines have a data plate on them that says the amount of fuel / hour burn rate or the pump flow rate.

Turbo's do different things whether you are talking about a gasoline engine or a diesel engine. It's very strange that the same thing can be so different on different type engines.

Diesel engine with turbo:

The more boost you run the less EGT's you get. (too an extent)
The more boost you run you won't make any more power with stock fuel settings. You just cool things off. No to very little power gain.
The more fuel you put to a turbo diesel engine the hotter things get and the more power you will make.

Gasoline engine:

The more boost you run the more EGT's you get.
The more boost you run you the more power you will make. Big power gain. You can double or triple air flow through an engine and double or triple the power of an engine.
The more fuel you put to a turbo gasoline engine (past around 10 to 1) the cooler things get and you will hurt power.

So as you can see, gasoline engines and diesel engines are very different in the way they work.

Goose2448 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

Goose2448 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHA

I don't have much to add at this point, but yall need to do some reading on how diesel's work. Diesels are roughly 56% efficient where a gas engine is 25-30%. Smoke does not equal power, to a point. My larger tunes smoke some until the Turbo Lights, then they clean up to zero smoke.

Buy what you want, but I bought a diesel, so I don't care what you gas burners think

You're not going to find a 56% efficient diesel anywhere. It's very unlikely that you'll find one that efficient in your lifetime.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/diesel.html

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/di_diesels.shtml

I looked at your first link. The 56% fuel efficiency number mentioned there is based on a mathematical calculation that assumes things like no friction or heat loss.

The most fuel efficient diesel engine in the world as far as I know is the Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C turbocharged two-stroke diesel engine I believe it achieves its maximum efficiency of just under 52% at about 90 rpm. It runs on heavy oil which has more energy than refined diesel and is about 1/2 the price.

For truck and passenger car diesel engines a maximum efficiency of about 41% is likely a good number.

4x4ord wrote:

Goose2448 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHA

I don't have much to add at this point, but yall need to do some reading on how diesel's work. Diesels are roughly 56% efficient where a gas engine is 25-30%. Smoke does not equal power, to a point. My larger tunes smoke some until the Turbo Lights, then they clean up to zero smoke.

Buy what you want, but I bought a diesel, so I don't care what you gas burners think

You're not going to find a 56% efficient diesel anywhere. It's very unlikely that you'll find one that efficient in your lifetime.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/diesel.html

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/di_diesels.shtml

Goose2448 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHA

I don't have much to add at this point, but yall need to do some reading on how diesel's work. Diesels are roughly 56% efficient where a gas engine is 25-30%. Smoke does not equal power, to a point. My larger tunes smoke some until the Turbo Lights, then they clean up to zero smoke.

Buy what you want, but I bought a diesel, so I don't care what you gas burners think

You're not going to find a 56% efficient diesel anywhere. It's very unlikely that you'll find one that efficient in your lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHA

I don't have much to add at this point, but yall need to do some reading on how diesel's work. Diesels are roughly 56% efficient where a gas engine is 25-30%. Smoke does not equal power, to a point. My larger tunes smoke some until the Turbo Lights, then they clean up to zero smoke.

Buy what you want, but I bought a diesel, so I don't care what you gas burners think

I will say those 1st gen Cummins Rams were good looking trucks. There's still a pristine '93 burnt orange metallic dually running around here. Duals out the back like a gasser and it sounds really good in my humble opinion. I may have another one day but it won't be for lack of satisfaction with the gassers. Like the four Cummins Rams I've owned before, it'll simply be a want.

Hannibal wrote:

Racerchaser27 wrote:

I have towed with both, and both have worked adimirably. If you are towing occasionally, a gasser will work just fine as long as you tow sensibly, and keep the maintenance up. But....to imply that a diesel will last no longer than a gasser is ubsurd. Take care of a "good" diesel and it will live many, many times longer a gasser. (there have been some less than desirable diesels built, same as gas engines) Don't do your research and get what you deserve I say! I know plenty of people with diesels (Duramax's and Cummin's mostly), with "well" over 300,000 kms and still towing like the day they were bought, without a wrench laid to them, except for regular maintenence. One good friend of mine who passed away last year, had an early Dodge/Cummins with a 5.9, and it had over 900,000 kms on it. Towed 90% of its life (Hauled TT's commercially for alot of years before using it for his own personal use and travelling). That was a great truck and all that was ever done to the engine mechanically was a fuel pump change. Ran like a top. He sold it and bought a new Dodge/Cummins 6.7 back in '06, which his widow still owns and drives. It has 250,000 kms on it and the family still tows a 35 ft 5th wheel with it. Show me even a meticulously maintained gasser that can put up those kinda longevity numbers and still be towing heavy. Its the reason I bought my Cummins. Best engine I've ever owned!

With a diesel you don't have to tow sensibly or do maintenance?:B

And your friend bought a 6.7L Cummins in '06?:h

900,000 km and not even a water pump? That's unbelievable!!! :E

Sorry, 2007 6.7. He saw a deep maroon colored 2wd 2500 and decided he wanted a new truck. Love at first site I guess, lol. And as far I as was ever told by him, and he was as honest as the day was long, only the fuel pump was ever changed on the old 5.9. He had 2 body and paint jobs done, regular,(bordering on anal) maintenance schedule for every thing maintenance wise, went through a few hubs and the like, but that truck was a gem. The guy who bought it put a plow on it and a sander in the back and worked it that winter plowing locally. Haven't seen it for a few years so not sure where it ever went.

In the 60's GMC did make a heavy duty gas engine that had the durability of the current pick up diesels. Those V6's also had decent performance for the day. A major downfall was the weight of the engine.

Build a gasser that weighs as much as a diesel and durability will never be a issue. Any difference in engine life would be due to fuel lubricity not design. It would be a slow turner that would need a turbo to make power though.