Gas vs. Diesel (Ecodiesel)

45Ricochet wrote:

wintersun wrote:
The ecodiesel is a con job. Half the power of the gas V-8 engine with a higher purchase price and higher maintenance costs is not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination. Need to compare a full size diesel engine with a full size gas engine if you plan to tow a heavy trailer.

I would not want to be the guinea pig on an American made diesel for a passenger car. American manufactures have a tiny fraction of the experience of European companies when it comes to passenger car diesels. The lowly Rabbit was very reliable but compare that the notorious GM diesel powered sedans that were a complete failure and cost their owners dearly.

Congratulations on keeping up with with your typical most uninformed ways. I don't think I've seen more misinformation from a single poster in my life. Gold medal buddy.

The 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 comes to these shores courtesy of VM Motori, a longtime Italian marine-diesel-engine builder and former affiliate of Fiat.
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Some people just can't be fixed. You know, you can't fix - - - - - -

carringb wrote:

Tystevens wrote:

jus2shy wrote:
I still find it funny that people assume that its maintenance costs are going to be just as bad as the HD trucks.

I wonder how many people complaining about diesel maintenance costs have actually owned and maintained a modern diesel.

I was managing a full fleet of light and medium trucks. Newer gassers have the same oil change intervals as newer diesels, but take less oil and filters cost less. All the other drivetrain servicing is the same (trans, diffs, even coolant on the Fords). So yes, diesels cost more to maintain, but that cost is pretty trivial to the cost of the cr@p getting stuffed into new trucks anyways like touchscreens and seats you are afraid to get dirty. The bigger concern for me is long-term repairs, which are certain to cost more for a newer diesel.

Well, I'd say that your experience and my experience shows that, at a minimum, it depends on the particular engine; as it pertains to this thread, there is no certainty that the VM diesel will cost a lot more to maintain than the gas counterpart just because it happens to be a diesel.

For my experience, my GMs have all had the oil life indicator, which is what I went by. My Duramax went 9500-11,000 miles before it asked for a 10 qt oil change; my 5.3 Suburbans have gone 7000-7500 before they want 6 qts of new oil. So for those particular trucks, oil was a wash. I think the Ford and Cummins diesels have much larger oil sumps, so obviously that could factor in.

I'm certainly in agreement that complaining about, at most, a couple hundred dollars annual increase in maintenance on a $50,000 truck doesn't really make sense to me.

Tystevens wrote:

jus2shy wrote:
I still find it funny that people assume that its maintenance costs are going to be just as bad as the HD trucks.

I wonder how many people complaining about diesel maintenance costs have actually owned and maintained a modern diesel.

I was managing a full fleet of light and medium trucks. Newer gassers have the same oil change intervals as newer diesels, but take less oil and filters cost less. All the other drivetrain servicing is the same (trans, diffs, even coolant on the Fords). So yes, diesels cost more to maintain, but that cost is pretty trivial to the cost of the cr@p getting stuffed into new trucks anyways like touchscreens and seats you are afraid to get dirty. The bigger concern for me is long-term repairs, which are certain to cost more for a newer diesel.

jus2shy wrote:
I still find it funny that people assume that its maintenance costs are going to be just as bad as the HD trucks.

I wonder how many people complaining about diesel maintenance costs have actually owned and maintained a modern diesel. I know that for my '06 Duramax, maintenance cost increase over my 1/2 ton gasser was marginal. Oil changes were a wash (10 qts over 10k miles vs. 6 at 7500 mi), the differentials and other items were serviced at the same intervals. No need for expensive spark plug replacement, and the Transynd transmission fluid was good for 150k miles, so those items were actually cheaper. The only additional cost over the gasser was a fuel filter, which was $55 every 15k miles or so. Hardly enough of an increased cost to make a difference in the decision to purchase.

wintersun wrote:
The ecodiesel is a con job. Half the power of the gas V-8 engine with a higher purchase price and higher maintenance costs is not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination. Need to compare a full size diesel engine with a full size gas engine if you plan to tow a heavy trailer.

Why do people so often state that a truck is useless if it can't pull their 'heavy' trailer? Maybe useless to you, but there are probably more people out there, myself included, looking for a truck for occasional towing than are looking for a dedicated puller for 10k+ lbs.

Installed in a 1/2 ton with under 1500# of payload, it is safe to assume this powerplant isn't meant to tow a 'heavy' trailer. Which is fine for many of us who do not own nor want to own a heavy trailer. And I expect that when hooked up to a 1/2 ton towable trailer, it will tow circles around the naturally aspirated engines in competing half tons, which is what it was meant to do.

This thing has 5 less HP than my 2001 5.9 Cummins in a lighter truck with twice as many gears. It should do fine for what it is intended.

wintersun wrote:
The ecodiesel is a con job. Half the power of the gas V-8 engine with a higher purchase price and higher maintenance costs is not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination. Need to compare a full size diesel engine with a full size gas engine if you plan to tow a heavy trailer.

I would not want to be the guinea pig on an American made diesel for a passenger car. American manufactures have a tiny fraction of the experience of European companies when it comes to passenger car diesels. The lowly Rabbit was very reliable but compare that the notorious GM diesel powered sedans that were a complete failure and cost their owners dearly.

If the ecodiesel is a con-job, would that mean all pre 2005 standard output Cummins Turbo Diesels and 7.3 Automatic Powerstrokes con-jobs? I mean they have nearly the same exact power output at stock levels. I still find it funny that people assume that its maintenance costs are going to be just as bad as the HD trucks. This motor is a lighter duty diesel motor probably more akin to the Toureg TDi's and Mercedes Bluetecs. I haven't seen a maintenance sheet on the darn thing and they're not even being produced until sometime in March as far as I know. So it's still early to pass judgement. Hell, with that implication, wouldn't all the TDi diesels being made also be con-jobs? Or does their European heritage exempt them of it? If that's the case, the ecodiesel should be allowed the same exemption being that it's built by VM Motori, a very well established European engine manufacturer...

wintersun wrote:
The ecodiesel is a con job. Half the power of the gas V-8 engine with a higher purchase price and higher maintenance costs is not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination. Need to compare a full size diesel engine with a full size gas engine if you plan to tow a heavy trailer.

I would not want to be the guinea pig on an American made diesel for a passenger car. American manufactures have a tiny fraction of the experience of European companies when it comes to passenger car diesels. The lowly Rabbit was very reliable but compare that the notorious GM diesel powered sedans that were a complete failure and cost their owners dearly.

Congratulations on keeping up with with your typical most uninformed ways. I don't think I've seen more misinformation from a single poster in my life. Gold medal buddy.

The 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 comes to these shores courtesy of VM Motori, a longtime Italian marine-diesel-engine builder and former affiliate of Fiat.
Car and Drive Link

Engineer9860 wrote:


In my area gas is 2.90/gal whereas diesel is still in the 3.70~3.80 range. This chart does not reflect this.

Based on the economy of the area in which I live the gassers would enjoy an advantage not shown in this chart.

Plus if it is gas you don't have to smell it, feel the shake, noise, and not track all the oil in on the rug.
Gas is always the best.

I love gas motors and I use to love diesels before....well, lets just say prior 2007.5. With that said I would bet any of these 1/2 ton diesels that are coming to light would make towing a more enjoyable experience than my 12' 5.3 or dare I say even my previous Ram's 2500 Hemi.