Gas vs. Diesel (Ecodiesel)

The ecodiesel is a con job. Half the power of the gas V-8 engine with a higher purchase price and higher maintenance costs is not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination. Need to compare a full size diesel engine with a full size gas engine if you plan to tow a heavy trailer.

I would not want to be the guinea pig on an American made diesel for a passenger car. American manufactures have a tiny fraction of the experience of European companies when it comes to passenger car diesels. The lowly Rabbit was very reliable but compare that the notorious GM diesel powered sedans that were a complete failure and cost their owners dearly.

It is pretty simple.

If you want a diesel just for the sake of it being a diesel in a half ton, now you have one available.

If you want max towing power in a half ton look to an ecoboost, or the bigger v8 engines offered gm 6.2/5.3, hemi 5.7, tundra 5.7.

If you want cheapest cost to operate your best bet is probably a v6 gas 1/2 ton.

Also diesel is consistently about .60 to .70 cents higher here so the numbers here don't show much fuel savings for the diesel.

carringb wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

Where is resale cost factored in here? Compare a Cummins to a gas engine and you get the vast majority of the entry fee back at resale. I would be willing to bet the Ecodiesel (I hate that name) will be the same.

Well that's going to depend to reliability for sure. The Ford 6.0 doesn't really carry much premium over the V10, and in cutaway and cab-chassis applications, the 6.0's usually goes for thousands less than a V10 with similar miles.

Haha, good point CarringB! When I was diesel pickup shopping, used PSD 6.0's were sitting on the lot and were a few thousand $$ cheaper than comparable Duramax and Cummins trucks, which were moving in days, not weeks.

But I think the 1500 diesel is an interesting concept, and hopefully one that will continue to spur change in the market. I'll be watching to see how it plays out for RAM. As will the other 2 mfgrs, I'm sure -- they're kinda talking it down right now, but if RAM can't keep 'em in stock, I bet we see a change of tune from them.

That is the half-size engine compared to what goes into a 2500/3500 truck. Might as well compare a diesel Rabbit's fuel economy.

Diesel engines are great for the manufacturers that have to meet tougher CAFE standards but still want to sell their most profitable vehicles, pickup trucks. The customers pay for the more expensive engine, the more expensive fuel, the more expensive maintenance, and the manufactures get better numbers for their fleet average fuel consumption. What a deal - for them!

rjstractor wrote:
I think it's been well established that the appeal of this engine or any other diesel is not dollars and cents. Either you want a diesel or you don't. For the Ecodiesel it will boil down to whether drivers prefer the way it drives compared to the Hemi. I would have to just drive the two head to head, preferably towing. I wouldn't bother with any using a stopwatch, we all know the Hemi's gonna win the race. What matters is which engine do you prefer the sound and feel of?

Exactly. There have never been more choices in 1/2 T engines. You can have normally aspirated DI and port injected V8's, normally aspirated and turbocharged V6's, diesel V6 and soon a diesel V8. What's not to like about that?

I think it's been well established that the appeal of this engine or any other diesel is not dollars and cents. Either you want a diesel or you don't. For the Ecodiesel it will boil down to whether drivers prefer the way it drives compared to the Hemi. I would have to just drive the two head to head, preferably towing. I wouldn't bother with any using a stopwatch, we all know the Hemi's gonna win the race. What matters is which engine do you prefer the sound and feel of?

Yeah, it's roughly 80 to 100 bux for both fuel filters on the newest Cummins rigs. Thankfully that's just a once a year thing. But that's only for the Cummins. This is a different motor and who knows whether or not it'll have 2 filters or 1. Need to remember that this isn't a Cummins motor, so we can't overlay Cummins costs on a VM motor. I expect costs that are probably more similar to a Toureg. Anyone know the cost of those? Or does anyone have an Ecodiesel jeep GC? Does it have 2 filters?

Bionic Man wrote:
$100 fuel filter? On my Cummins that is a $50 part and 5 minutes of labor.

Where is resale cost factored in here? Compare a Cummins to a gas engine and you get the vast majority of the entry fee back at resale. I would be willing to bet the Ecodiesel (I hate that name) will be the same.

People are reporting ~$120 for the '13 Ram cummins filters. The new RAM's now have two filters and for some it takes 5 minutes just to locate them.

Link

There is a lot more to cost of ownership than fuel. You have all the other maintenance as well. Differential services, transmission service, fuel filter, etc. So yes you have to compare everything. Last I checked dodge required differentials at 60k and maybe 30 k when towing. With full synthetic fluid that is required you a looking at a hundred dollars an axle. My ford owners manual states that I don't end front differential service until 150k and even with severe duty towing rear differential is sealed for life. ( no service required).

Bionic Man wrote:

Where is resale cost factored in here? Compare a Cummins to a gas engine and you get the vast majority of the entry fee back at resale. I would be willing to bet the Ecodiesel (I hate that name) will be the same.

Well that's going to depend to reliability for sure. The Ford 6.0 doesn't really carry much premium over the V10, and in cutaway and cab-chassis applications, the 6.0's usually goes for thousands less than a V10 with similar miles.