GM is going to offer a small truck diesel!

tplife wrote:
Sue Bee is correct, these engines have been around for decades but US EPA sulfur particulate content emission rules made them unavailable for our market. Recent reformulations to low-sulfur diesel (have you seen the price change?) will allow these engines to be a part of the US market, but higher maintenance costs will scare away some buyers due to diesel pm schedules.

Not sure that higher maintenance costs due to being a diesel will necessarily prove true with these engines. Mileage between oil changes on the VW Jetta diesel I used to own was double that of gas models. 1 year 16,000 KM for the diesel and 6 months 8,000 KM for the gas. Mileage between timing belt changes was also greater. Only thing done more often on the diesel was the fuel filter change.

If the price premium isn't too high, both the Ram and small GM diesels will be big sellers in Canada where diesel is the same price or lower than regular gas. 80% of Jettas and 30% of all VW's sold in Canada are diesels and I expect the diesel Cruze will also do very well here.

TnP you must be talking about that joke GM tried back in 1977-1985? Yep that was a real winner wasn't it.

GM single handily all but killed the diesel car market in the US for years to come. Not to mention costing them millions to convert those cars to gas and or repair the diesel engines as long as they are on the road.

So you still have one of those dogs? A guy I sold cutting tools for had a Eldo diesel, spent more time behind a tow truck then on the road. Then add the p-poor diesel fuel back then in the winter, you didn't dare drive it in weather below 20* unless you had lots of blankets to keep you warm waiting for the tow truck.

Don

tplife wrote:
Recent reformulations to low-sulfur diesel (have you seen the price change?) will allow these engines to be a part of the US market, but higher maintenance costs will scare away some buyers due to diesel pm schedules.

I knew it was not much they had to change to conform to US regulations but better quality US fuel will help these engines work in the US.

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
It does seem that GM still holds it's shares in VM. This has got to upset some in GM management.

Meanwhile, Fiat bought 50 percent of VM Motori in February 2011 -- and there was a brand-new diesel V-6 turbo engine ready to go. There have been some design changes, but the engine that was originally designed for Cadillac will get its first action competing against the company that conceived it.


So I wonder if the GM fan boys are going to continue bashing the 3.0 V6 that almost found it's way into the engine bay of the Holy Grail that is the CTS. Must have been a decent engine right?

Don

Not really. I have a 5.7 diesel in a Cadillac. The 5.7 diesel must be a decent engine if they put it in a Cadillac right? :B

It does seem that GM still holds it's shares in VM. This has got to upset some in GM management.

Meanwhile, Fiat bought 50 percent of VM Motori in February 2011 -- and there was a brand-new diesel V-6 turbo engine ready to go. There have been some design changes, but the engine that was originally designed for Cadillac will get its first action competing against the company that conceived it.


So I wonder if the GM fan boys are going to continue bashing the 3.0 V6 that almost found it's way into the engine bay of the Holy Grail that is the CTS. Must have been a decent engine right?

Don

Sue Bee is correct, these engines have been around for decades but US EPA sulfur particulate content emission rules made them unavailable for our market. Recent reformulations to low-sulfur diesel (have you seen the price change?) will allow these engines to be a part of the US market, but higher maintenance costs will scare away some buyers due to diesel pm schedules.

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
I'm sure I read that Fiat bought out GM or is buying out GM, will see if I can find it and post a link.

Don

VM Motori started supplying Chrysler in 1992, with the Chrysler Voyager’s diesel option; it was owned by Detroit Diesel at the time, spent some time being owned 50/50 by General Motors and Fiat, and is now entirely owned by Fiat. VM Motori currently powers several European Chrysler and Jeep cars, as well as (as of Februrary 2011) the Chevrolet Captiva, London Taxi, and other vehicles.

Original is at 2011+ VM Motori V6 Diesel Engines http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html#ixzz2dSvBMCrL
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html

That Allpar article is the only one you'll find that claims GM sold it's stake.
If you can find another source, I'd love to see it.

Everyhing I've found indicates that it's still a joint venture.
Here are just a few, including VM's own website.
There are many, many more you'll find via google:
Automotive News:
7/24/2013 Article

7/15/2013 Article

VM Motori Website:
VM Motori History

ksss wrote:
I cant imagine a 4.5 baby Duramax making 310 and 520 when the LB7 was just 300 and 520. That would require 2500 sized running gear(in a 1500) and unless they found an efficiency Genie somewhere, marginal mileage. I believe in order for this diesel in a half ton thing to work. It has to be a good bit cheaper than the HD version, and get real close to 30 mpg. I think 500 foot pounds defies both of those criteria.

I don't know, you might be right -- real world numbers of 22 mpg would kill sales, to be sure, especially with diesel costing more. But I can also imagine a 500 ft/lb engine with a low torque curve pushing along a 1/2 ton at 70 mph turning 1500 rpm in front of an 8 spd transmission. Probably wouldn't be a good towing gear, but I guess it might return pretty good mpg unloaded.

Heck, my grandpa's 2001 Dodge Cummins 2500 6 spd got close to 25 mpg unloaded on the freeway, and I think it had about the same power output as GM was predicting from the baby Max. A 1/2 ton would be 1500# lighter, with more technology to boot, so I think it might be doable. If I could get a 1/2 ton (hopefully a Suburban, since I have 4 kids) that got slightly better mileage than his truck did, with the same power, I think I'd be a buyer.

ksss wrote:
Where there is a fight for who has the biggest towing numbers in the HD market, I think this half ton diesel market will be a MPG race with towing capacity being less important. If they cant create significant mpg separation from the LD and HD pickups, their going to have a harder time selling them, even if they are cheaper.

Yep, this is kind of where I see things headed. Looking at the "typical" 1/2 ton series user (not the rv.net user), I don't believe towing is a priority, it just has to be a possibility.

That is certainly the case for us and our 1500 Suburban. It gets used for a lot of jobs, from school bus to scout transport vehicle to road trip hauler to my wife's daily driver to towing the TT. It is at its max towing capacity only a few days and 500-1000 miles a year, as we do not take long trips anymore -- just a half dozen 2-3 night trips that are usually within 200 miles of home. So a 2500 (which would get worse mpg and ride rougher) didn't make sense for the 90% of the time when max towing isn't needed. But better mpg (although, in all honesty, I'm pretty happy with the current mpg of our 2010, particularly on freeway trips), with still the capacity to tow 7500-8500 lbs on occasion, would be a welcome development.

It seems to me that the great majority of 1/2 ton owners are in a similar situation as we are, at least the ones I know. So I think that increased mpg with similar/current tow ratings would be just the ticket.

I'm sure I read that Fiat bought out GM or is buying out GM, will see if I can find it and post a link.

Don

VM Motori started supplying Chrysler in 1992, with the Chrysler Voyager’s diesel option; it was owned by Detroit Diesel at the time, spent some time being owned 50/50 by General Motors and Fiat, and is now entirely owned by Fiat. VM Motori currently powers several European Chrysler and Jeep cars, as well as (as of Februrary 2011) the Chevrolet Captiva, London Taxi, and other vehicles.

Original is at 2011+ VM Motori V6 Diesel Engines http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html#ixzz2dSvBMCrL
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html