GM Strike

Plenty of opinion here and a whole lot of bad info and good info. Bottom line about unions and their missions for their workers they represent........ if you have never walk the walk in a union then don't tell us about it as your position is hear say and not of experience but of opinion.

I do numbers for a living. I can make them say whatever I want them to. Lie? not exactly. But data is easily massaged to show what you would like it to show.

just saying...

And seriously, is there any single person on this board who has not been forced to move on and learn something new in order to adapt to the workplace? It's life. I've been laid off 3 times and have had multiple completely different careers in different industries in my short 30 years of working. You suck it up and figure it out.

librty02 wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:

Reisender wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Autoworkers feel EV’s will be job killers.

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/auto-workers-fear-evs-will-be-job-killers

That is pretty interesting. I wonder if the temp employer thing they say they are holding out for is just a ruse, and they are really holding to stop EV's. After all, the temp worker thing has been around for decades and could have been a point for previous contract negotiations, but never was. Why is it now?

Stopping EV’s wouldn’t make any sense. The market for non EV’s is going to continue to shrink. Being an employee of a company with an ever shrinking market would be more scary than being an employee that is downsizing for modernization reasons.

Have you ever been downsized out of a job? I was downsized out of the steel industry in the early 80's, after wasting close to 10 years. Granted the company started by driving the nails and pounding on them for years prior, but the USW played a large role in driving them home. It was no picnic and there is an entire valley 30 miles long in western PA where I grew up where tens of thousands of people / families, and dozens of towns, were totally decimated financially. A lot of those areas are still depressed 40 years later. It's easy to comment on forums regarding things one never experienced.

Bert
Many of my family members were a part of all of that in the early 80's...the mon valley area both steel and rail industry alone employed more people in the 60' and 70's early 80s than are left here in the area today. The area had never recouped from it and never will. ET, Irvin, and Clairton are the only mills still running today and not at a 1/10 of the capacity they were years ago. Hopefully you made it out ok and lived a prosperous life after that.

I have a close cousin who has about 25 in at Clairton. He was telling me last Xmas he does not see making it past the next contract negotiation. Also the County, State, and Fed are all on them heavy for environmental issues. No biggie. Those guys can always go get a job at Dollar General or Tree, plenty of those around.

If Clairton goes, next goes ET, if ET goes, next goes Irvin. Deja Vu.

2012Coleman wrote:

a polyonymous poster wrote:
It's easy to comment on forums regarding things one never experienced.

Aint that the truth...

Just what is your problem nitwit? You seem to search out my posts so you can accuse me of being someone else. You're an ass

a polyonymous poster wrote:
It's easy to comment on forums regarding things one never experienced.

Aint that the truth...

fj12ryder wrote:
Well, figures lie and liars figure, and I'm always suspicious of anything the Koch brothers support, because you can guarantee that it won't be good for anyone except the Koch brothers.

Actually, numbers don't lie. They can only be misinterpreted or manipulated when convenient for arguments sake. Just because one doesn't like what they say doesn't make it untrue. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - Daniel Moynihan

Bert Ackerman wrote:

Reisender wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Autoworkers feel EV’s will be job killers.

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/auto-workers-fear-evs-will-be-job-killers

That is pretty interesting. I wonder if the temp employer thing they say they are holding out for is just a ruse, and they are really holding to stop EV's. After all, the temp worker thing has been around for decades and could have been a point for previous contract negotiations, but never was. Why is it now?

Stopping EV’s wouldn’t make any sense. The market for non EV’s is going to continue to shrink. Being an employee of a company with an ever shrinking market would be more scary than being an employee that is downsizing for modernization reasons.

Have you ever been downsized out of a job? I was downsized out of the steel industry in the early 80's, after wasting close to 10 years. Granted the company started by driving the nails and pounding on them for years prior, but the USW played a large role in driving them home. It was no picnic and there is an entire valley 30 miles long in western PA where I grew up where tens of thousands of people / families, and dozens of towns, were totally decimated financially. A lot of those areas are still depressed 40 years later. It's easy to comment on forums regarding things one never experienced.

Bert
Many of my family members were a part of all of that in the early 80's...the mon valley area both steel and rail industry alone employed more people in the 60' and 70's early 80s than are left here in the area today. The area had never recouped from it and never will. ET, Irvin, and Clairton are the only mills still running today and not at a 1/10 of the capacity they were years ago. Hopefully you made it out ok and lived a prosperous life after that.

fj12ryder wrote:
Well, figures lie and liars figure, and I'm always suspicious of anything the Koch brothers support, because you can guarantee that it won't be good for anyone except the Koch brothers.

I can say the same thing about something who Soros and many other leftist billionaires support.

However, as I said, the number came from a government agency and have been for years even when there was a democrat in the white house so you can't say they are fudged. The truth is, many public sector unions do union work on taxpayer dime. The average has been around 3,400,000 hours a year from 2010 to 2016. Even shockingly, they had union workers in the VA who had 100% of their time in union work even though many veterans are dying before they even get to see a doctor. That is sad.

Another ironic thing is that you didn't even know about this. Probably because the place where you get your news doesn't want you to know it. Don't you think this is something you would want to know especially if you were a veteran? If so, then I would question why aren't these news organizations not telling you this yet a Koch brothers supported organization is.

ShinerBock wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Whoa! Back up there! I don't think I called people in right to work states "freeloaders".
Say 10 people working side by each, all doing the same work, all getting paid the same, union negotiated rate, working under the same union negotiated work rules. 6 are paying the dues, 4 are not. Now say work gets slow, company decides need to cut staff, and wants to lay off the oldest because he will soon be eligible for the union negotiated retirement. By the so called "Right To Work" laws I have read, if the contract says the least senior workers should be first cut, union must represent the one the company want to cut, even if he has never paid a dime in dues. What do you call that old guy? If you paid dues, does that change his name?

1. You said you call right to work states the right to "free load" essentially calling them free loaders.

2. In Texas, the union is not required to represent non-union workers.

3. Texas has the Texas Labor Code Chapter 21 which protects people who are over 40 from this kind of stuff in places that have more than 15 employees. You also have the Age Discrimination in Employment Act for US, but that applies to employers with 20 employees of more.



What about the reverse? Unions using taxpayer time/money to fund their operations?

The Unfair Ways Unions Use Resources from Taxpayers, Members

"In FY 2016, federal employees spent more than 3.6 million working hours on union business. That includes:

1 million+ hours at the Department of Veterans Affairs. (One registered nurse from the VA spent 100 percent of her time doing official time.)
58,000 hours at the Environmental Protection Agency.
6,500 hours at the Department of Education.
873 hours at the National Science Foundation."

"At the scandal-plagued VA alone, 472 employees spent 100 percent of their working hours advancing union interests instead of actually caring for veterans in fiscal 2017, including two who each made more than $190,000 per year – all while veterans were dying waiting in line for the VA’s government-run healthcare."

What about those? When I worked at the paper mil that I stated earlier, I saw union leaders doing union stuff on company time all the time. They even used company supplies like paper, printers and ink.

Like I said. There is good and bad on both sides. You can't mention the union doing stuff for free without bringing up the fact that they do a lot of stuff on the company dime as well. So if you are mad at the union having to represent non-union workers on the union dime, then take it out of the 100 plus million dollars each year unions get it out of taxpayers for doing union work on the clock. Although, I am sure you will still owe us in the end.

Heavens knows that the "facts" quoted there are on the level and not biased. Since the "Americans for Prosperity" is funded by the Koch brothers, I'm sure it's completely even handed. Riiiiiiiight.

The reported numbers came from the US government(the U.S. Office of Personnel Management or OPM to be exact) if you read the article. Americans for Prosperity was just reporting reporting on the numbers that came from the US government just like many others have written about the same thing. Ironically, most of those who wrote an article about this are on the right, but hardly any left leaning news organization said a word about it. I guess they don't want their people to know what is really going and only want them to know the negatives on the other side.

Well, figures lie and liars figure, and I'm always suspicious of anything the Koch brothers support, because you can guarantee that it won't be good for anyone except the Koch brothers.

Reisender wrote:
Autoworkers feel EV’s will be job killers.

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/auto-workers-fear-evs-will-be-job-killers

Yes the UAW has long been on the road to obsolescence. Here is another one:
They Don’t Need Us Anymore’: Auto Workers Fear Electric Unrest