Forum Discussion
- NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION! There are a lot of jobs that are gone forever. GM, Ford,Chrysler found it NECISARRY to trim Fat in order to stay in business. Many of those jobs are gone forever. Unemployment rates will be very slow to recover because of this. Don't base the recovery solely on unemployment rates.
Travelnutz said "I wouldn't do so much bragging if I were you! Each tier step down gets easier to replace and that you can take to the bank instead of a paycheck!" Why was that necessary? - A Buick passed me on the interstate the other day. I had to do a double take to see what it was.......definitely not your grandpa's Buick. A much sportier looking car than I would have expected a Buick to be. I would even go as far to say above par when you compare it to its competition.
- If you do the research you find these numbers and facts:
Number of employees per corporation of the Big 3 in year 2012. Rounded off to the nearest thousand world wide and in the USA, nearest hundred in Mexico.
GM:
205,000 world wide --- GM has 157 plants/locations
96,000 in the USA
11,300 in Mexico
Ford:
166,000 world wide --- Ford has 70 plants/locations
54,000 in the USA
10,800 in Mexico
Chrysler:
59,000 world wide --- Chrysler has 25 plants/locations
37,000 in USA
14,300 in Mexico
Some web sites list hourly only and others include all management. My list includes total direct employment for all three corporations only. Does not include any supplier employment. - Don
Back in the day if you needed to dig a ditch you hired a bunch of guys and passed out shovels. These days any John Q Public can run down to his local Rent All and tote home a Ditch Witch and do it by himself in a fraction of the time.
However, excavation should be left to professionals. Support your local excavator! Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
I just can't see how they can have 70,000 people out on the street and hiring people here a Toledo Power Train :h
I'm sure the Union would have something to say about that. Now they did offer a lot of buy out before the bankruptcy but none after, same holds true for Chrysler. I know GM/Ford even hired some trades people back that took the buy outs.
But at any rate buyouts should not be considered as lost jobs. GM has always been overstaffed both union and non union workers. Were you once needed 40 people to staff a line you now can do it with 15 do to robotics and modern production techniques. But I can assure you GM does not have any workers laid off.
Don
People should pay attention to the last part of this post, because in reality that is what has happened to the bulk of manufacturing jobs in this country. They haven't been "shipped overseas". There is more manufacturing happening in this country than ever, but it's all being done with less people. Nature of the beast. Manufacturing refinement results in better efficiency, and like or not better efficiency usually means fewer humans involved.
Back in the day if you needed to dig a ditch you hired a bunch of guys and passed out shovels. These days any John Q Public can run down to his local Rent All and tote home a Ditch Witch and do it by himself in a fraction of the time.Lessmore wrote:
MARK VANDERBENT wrote:
In case you didn't know, buick in china is like bmw here. They really like the buicks. Guess the quality must be pretty good and they are a change from the cookie cutter cars found there.
It is the case. Buick is very popular in China. It is a car with great status in China and from what I understand this Chinese view of Buick goes back many decades.
One of our vehicles is a 2007 Buick sedan, bought new in 2007 and I have to say after living with it since then I've changed my mind about Buick's.
I got past the old man's car stereotype after a year or so and I find it to be an excellent automobile. Very quiet, comfortable, capable, reliable and not at all a big, wallowing land barge as many (including me before I bought it :B) seem to think it is.
I have found the quality to be excellent. I originally bought my Buick because I'm a little on the large size at 6'3" + and 245 lbs with bad hockey knees.
I need to drive with my right leg pretty well stretched out and at the time a Buick sedan was about the only car with enough leg room and a firm, supportive seat which would comfortably accommodate me.
If you told me that 10 years before I'd be driving a Buick sedan....I would of been surprised.
But I'm glad I made the choice.
A lot of us have a particular image (preconceived notion) about certain vehicles that can change rapidly once we drive them.
A friend of mine loved to tease me about the Volvo XC90 we bought as my wife's DD; "look at you, one kid, another on the way and look what it's done to your taste in cars!" he loved to say.
It was all in fun but finally I said "c'mon, we're going for a drive, you're driving."
Once he got the 311hp/329ft-lb Yamaha-sourced V8 up to 110mph he changed his tune real, real quick...
You know what they say we do when we assume :W- I just can't see how they can have 70,000 people out on the street and hiring people here a Toledo Power Train :h
I'm sure the Union would have something to say about that. Now they did offer a lot of buy out before the bankruptcy but none after, same holds true for Chrysler. I know GM/Ford even hired some trades people back that took the buy outs.
But at any rate buyouts should not be considered as lost jobs. GM has always been overstaffed both union and non union workers. Were you once needed 40 people to staff a line you now can do it with 15 do to robotics and modern production techniques. But I can assure you GM does not have any workers laid off.
Don mich800 wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
travelnutz wrote:
Terryallen,
Sorry I didn't get back to your post earlier as it's Mothers Day and lots of happenings at church this morning.
"bimbert84" had posted what tier literally means and it's 3rd down the line of suppliers. Tier 3 is a component sub-supplier to tier 2 who is a component partial assembly sub-supplier to tier 1 who has the actual supplier contract to supply the finished assembly using components from sub-supplier tier levels, be it black box, or gray box item complete ready to install at the assembly line of the manufacturer on a JIT (Just In Time) basis.
Manufacturer's today usually have a max inventory of 4 hours line run time supply of vehicle components on their floor especially if the component is of any physical size. This does not include items such as fasteners and other small bulk type items. The tier 1 supplier is the controller of and the responsibility of their contractural agreement with the manufacturer and physically/controls the inventory themselves to supply JIT. Be it in house in transit to the assembly line and dictates to it's sub-suppliers as to the inventory they are authorized and required to have on hand and also materials purchasing releases for purchased items. That is why they are called TIERS. It's a pipeline of JIT as much as practical or possible to the final assembly line of finished items/assemblies for vehicle build. GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc do NOT inventory components in house and haven't for many years, like since the 1980's.
Tier 3 is way down the line of component supply levels!
Then I guess I was wrong. Or miss informed, Not the first time for either. Because our product goes directly to GM, Ford, who ever, fully assembled, and it bolted on with no added componets from any one else. It even arrives at the line full of oil, and already ran, and checked for noise. For Vetts it arrives married to the trans.
It all depends on who your purchase order is with. If it is with the OEM's and that is who pays you than you are a tier 1. Perhaps you are manufacturing for the Tier 1 or other but they have you ship directly to the OEM but get paid by that Tier 1. Then you are Tier 2+ depending on your order in the food chain. So the short answer is who is your purchase order with.
The purchase orders come from GM. GM quality people roam our plant freely, as do Ford, and BMW. There is no one between us. We deal directly with GM, and the other manufacturers.Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Terry do you have a link for that story. I haven't seen anything about GM shedding jobs. Just the opposite they have added jobs here in the US.
Don
No, I was just watching the round table discussion during one of their segments. the panel was discussing the merits of the bailout, and what we got for it. Of course there were some on both sides, For and against, and one guy even said that GM had finished paying off the loans in the past week. I didn't research it, but assumed he knew what he was talking about. They went on for about 15 min. The 70,000 number was used by several of them, and refuted by none.
What they all agreed on, was the money was paid back because of the growing China sales, and not the US sales. I can believe that. Because many, mnay of the units we make for GM go to Korea. Am I glad to be exporting GM parts? Yep. It helps pay the bills. Long as they want them, I'll make them. Rather send them there, than inport them here.Lessmore wrote:
MARK VANDERBENT wrote:
In case you didn't know, buick in china is like bmw here. They really like the buicks. Guess the quality must be pretty good and they are a change from the cookie cutter cars found there.
It is the case. Buick is very popular in China. It is a car with great status in China and from what I understand this Chinese view of Buick goes back many decades.
One of our vehicles is a 2007 Buick sedan, bought new in 2007 and I have to say after living with it since then I've changed my mind about Buick's.
I got past the old man's car stereotype after a year or so and I find it to be an excellent automobile. Very quiet, comfortable, capable, reliable and not at all a big, wallowing land barge as many (including me before I bought it :B) seem to think it is.
I have found the quality to be excellent. I originally bought my Buick because I'm a little on the large size at 6'3" + and 245 lbs with bad hockey knees.
I need to drive with my right leg pretty well stretched out and at the time a Buick sedan was about the only car with enough leg room and a firm, supportive seat which would comfortably accommodate me.
If you told me that 10 years before I'd be driving a Buick sedan....I would of been surprised.
But I'm glad I made the choice.
Not to turn this into a Buick thread, but my wife is upper 30's and I am low 40's and we own a Buick. It came time to replace our Impala SS and my wife liked the loaded Buick Lacrosse AWD. I actually was pulling for a Camaro but no dice. Since I don't drive her car much my vote did not count and 18 months later, she still loves the car. Its easy to see why the Buick is becoming more popular, it does a lot of things right. Very comfortable to drive, nice high end touches without being over the top like Cadillac. I think the only thing holding the car back in the USA is the notion that only old people drive a Buick.
