Horsepower is horsepower?

Hybridhunter wrote:
Overstating? Hmmm
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/22/toyota-tundra-hit-with-two-more-quality-issues/

If you say so. Still no need to declare war. I was pretty close with what I posted.

I don't recall declaring war; as I said earlier, I thought we were having an entertaining, interesting gentlemen's debate but then the name-calling, on your part Sir, began, and it continues as apparently now I'm a "stalker."

From reading your posts, you seem too intelligent to need to resort to name-calling so I'm going to assume you're having a bad day.

This should make you happy:

2007 Tundras had a lot of issues that needed to be worked out.

But I say again:

Name any brand, including whatever the keys in your pocket opens and starts, and I can post links to known problems and issues.

And BTW, I have no tattoos, and if I did, it'd be my kids' names, not a truck brand :)

Overstating? Hmmm
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/22/toyota-tundra-hit-with-two-more-quality-issues/

" At the 2007 Tokyo Auto Show a Toyota exec stated the Tundra's quality woes brought "shame" to the company. In July 2006, the then Toyota CEO Watanabe bowed in apology for Toyota's decline in quality, however he also promised the company was taking major steps to fix these problems "

If you say so. Still no need to become a stalker. I was pretty close with what I posted.

Hybridhunter wrote:
I recall you disagreeing with facts I posted and being unwilling to inform yourself that what I posted was in fact correct, for the time frame stated.
I don't recall Nissan's CEO having to publicly apologize for botching anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tundra#Recalls

I'm out.

Wasn't disagreeing with your facts, just think you were overstating those facts...there's a difference.

Look, you got burned by Toyota and don't like them because of it...I get it. I'd probably feel the same way.

I recall you disagreeing with facts I posted and being unwilling to inform yourself that what I posted was in fact correct, for the time frame stated.
I don't recall Nissan's CEO having to publicly apologize for botching anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tundra#Recalls

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/22/toyota-tundra-hit-with-two-more-quality-issues/

I'm out.

Hybridhunter wrote:
You have VERY low reading comprehension! My statement was that Nissan can get it right, they did on their first shot at a full size truck.
Toyota has SINCE updated the trans, and frame. The also cost a pile more where I live, and buying a truck solely on KBB residuals is pretty flakey.

My reading comprehension is just fine; if you're going to make this personal, I'm done.

I thought we were having a gentlemen's disagreement, but if we're name calling I'm bowing out.

I enjoy reading your posts and plan to continue to do so, so I don't want this to go any further.

You have VERY low reading comprehension! My statement was that Nissan can get it right, they did on their first shot at a full size truck.
Toyota has SINCE updated the trans, and frame. The also cost a pile more where I live, and buying a truck solely on KBB residuals is pretty flakey.
I suspect someone has a big "T" tattoed on their privates, geez.

Hybridhunter wrote:
The 07 Tundra transmission failures / upgrade is there for those who want to know.
The 07 Tundra camshaft / total engine destruction info is there for those to read.
The C-channel rear frame lack of torsional strength is also well known.
As is the early rear diff failure on the Titan.
Not picking favorites, just informing myself and then forming OPINIONS.
Clearly some are blinded by the Toyota name, and are unaware of some of the bigger oopses. Like I said, I own a Toyota and have owned many. I'll never buy another based on the headaches. You want to bash Nissan for the odd diff failure, well I had 3 rear ring and pinions on my Tacoma bite the dust in 40K miles. Anyhow....
I was just posting what had happened with the 07 Tundras, as documented by Toyota and the respective owners, learn, love or loath the facts.
Disputing it as made up while too lazy to research it is, well, a bit FOOLISH.

My point was simply that Nissan can do it, and get it right on the first try, so their second try might be a home run, especially with a Cummins.

OK, I'll play...name any brand you want, and I'll be happy to google and post all of the negatives about it.

I think picking on one brand, while they ALL have issues, is a bit FOOLISH :W

PS- I did "google" the KBB values:

2007 Titan crew cab 4x4 loaded with tow & off-road packages, excellent condition, 87k miles = $18,488

2007 Tundra crew cab 4x4 loaded with tow & off-road packages, excellent condition, 87k miles = $25,707

I guess some folks prefer to spend over $7,200 more for the thrill of having a bad frame and transmission.

The 07 Tundra transmission failures / upgrade is there for those who want to know.
The 07 Tundra camshaft / total engine destruction info is there for those to read.
The C-channel rear frame lack of torsional strength is also well known.
As is the early rear diff failure on the Titan.
Not picking favorites, just informing myself and then forming OPINIONS.
Clearly some are blinded by the Toyota name, and are unaware of some of the bigger oopses. Like I said, I own a Toyota and have owned many. I'll never buy another based on the headaches. You want to bash Nissan for the odd diff failure, well I had 3 rear ring and pinions on my Tacoma bite the dust in 40K miles. Anyhow....
I was just posting what had happened with the 07 Tundras, as documented by Toyota and the respective owners, learn, love or loath the facts.
Disputing it as made up while too lazy to research it is, well, a bit FOOLISH.

My point was simply that Nissan can do it, and get it right on the first try, so their second try might be a home run, especially with a Cummins.

Hybridhunter wrote:

bmanning wrote:

Hybridhunter wrote:

.......
>>>>>>Comparing when they came out, <<<<<<It seems Nissan understands trucks. The Titan was ground breaking, the tundra, not so much.

Huh? The Titan is dated; around 300hp, 5sp Auto, history of problems and issues. The Tundra, though like the Titan introduced several years ago, still competes with today's half-tons with 381hp, a 6sp Auto, and an excellent reliability history.
You're welcome to hate Toyota if you like but I don't think you'll find many who agree with your logic on this one.

That's a laugh. Google 2007 Tundra transmission, camshaft, frame, etc or, read this, old Titan vs new Tundra, hmmm. Hardly a tundra blowout.

Truck comparison

The Titan was the first import "1/2 ton", that was a real, fullsized truck. And it did not garner a rep for a twisty frame, failure prone engine, or failure prone trans within 6 months of launch. (Google it, toyota has since beefed up the trans, and the frame). The tundra did. The tundra also came out with big power, just as the market was swinging to economy. Also groundbreaking, was the president of Toyota apologizing for the flop. And dont get me don't get me started on the "all new", milldly refreshed 2014. Nissan had an under-cooled diff, the fix was a finned cover. Compare the first gen tundra to first gen Titan.....
I owned 2 new Tacomas, and my wife an new Echo and a new corolla in The past 8 years. I don't own a nissan, but I did own a brand new one in 2005. I'm not brand loyal at all.
It's easier to dismiss criticism as bias though I suppose.
Anyhow, back to the topic at hand....
My point was Nissan got pretty close, first try. Toyota was on their second gen and they botched a few biggies. Nissan will no doubt impress with the Diesel they are working on. Until Toyota realizes they have to innovate, and can't live off reputation fumes, their products won't interest me.

For the record I have nothing against Nissan; they aren't my cup of tea but that's purely subjective...I think that if they create a great chassis around the new Cummins they'll put themselves back on the map with truck buyers.

As far as "googling it," I can "google it" and find horror stories about any brand...I don't know what you drive hybrid but I can promise you that I can "google it" and find plenty of misery about it too, be it a Ford, GM, Ram, whatever. Same with magazine comparisons; with enough time and want-to, I can dig up articles painting GM as the best...another year or another magazine, it's Ford...another publication, it's Ram. The "google game" can be played to infiniti (pardon the pun, referencing infiniti in a thread discussing Nissan :W)

When someone builds a truly problem-free truck, I'll be the first in line to buy it...despite the delusions of so many, it has yet to be produced.

I think you're overstating "frame and transmission issues" on Tundras; were there failures?, likely there were, but it's not a 6.0L diesel-like epidemic as you seem to want to spin it. In all my years on the forum, I'm surprised I haven't read more about 07 Tundras being junk with weak frames and bad transmissions. I do recall, however, reading about weak Nissan diffs. Maybe just an ironic twist.

I don't consider myself brand loyal- my driveway right now has an F250 and a Volvo XC90 V8, no Toyotas currently- but I do think Toyota garners plenty of haters out of jealousy that "their" brand can't match it's reputation for reliability and durability.

You're welcome to disagree, but while we're googling, let's google some book values to see which brands hold value best.

As you said earlier, hmmm....