How a TT is built

Most things are built that way. Sorry to say. There is a large agriculture tractor manufacture near me. I know someone that works there. She works on the line and she tells me that the employees are told to just put the tractor together and get it out the door. Even though they know they are not putting it together right and that there are defects. Once the tractor get to the dealer the dealers mechanics take it apart and fix the assembly defects. She can't figure out how this makes any since but, that's just the way it done.

That video is living proof why so many new trailers have performance and quality issues. The whole thrust is to get the trailer built and out the door. Jayco even brags about building that trailer in only 6 hours. I'll bet it's sitting in some dealer's shop right now waiting for warranty repairs. Personally, after seeing that video I will not buy a Jayco trailer.

rbpru wrote:
Quality is whatever the customer accepts. The industry builds to a standard suitable for the market. When that changes the the industry will change.Sad but true.

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Think maybe the Japanese proved that wrong???

Quality is whatever the customer accepts. The industry builds to a standard suitable for the market

When that changes the the industry will change.

Sad but true.

Some causes of quality problems as I see it are:

• Lack of codes, standards and regulations.
  

• Lack of any outside agency or organization that you can lodge a complaint with to check compliance with codes, standards and regulations and who will take actions as needed against a manufacturer.

• Lack of quality assurance/management programs such as the ISO 9000 family of programs.

Some may not like codes, standards and regulations, but without them, substandard quality is a result. In the building construction industry as a comparison, when it comes to nailing for example, nail length, type, size, spacing and nailing pattern are specified. There is a formalized inspection process by a building inspector and/or engineer. If something isn't correct, it has to be redone. If something failed because it wasn't done right, there can be serious consequences. When it comes to building a TT, it is the complete opposite. Materials and individual components may be certified by CSA, UL, etc. but an RV manufacturer can do whatever they want in assembling one.

A quality assurance/management program when properly designed and properly executed will lead to consistently better quality, lower defect rates, less warranty work required in the field, higher customer satisfaction, improved productivity and lower overall costs for a manufacturer. These programs are a system of checks and balances from start to finish in a manufacturing process that checks along the way to see if what they said would be done has been done. It does NOT lead to increased costs unless it was improperly put together and improperly executed along the way. There are MANY organizations now, service and manufacturing, that use the ISO quality assurance/management programs.

Lippert has a quality assurance program but I'm not sure what it is. I thought it was mentioned on their home page but I can't see it now. But they recently had an ad for a quality asurance engineer. If Lippert has a quality control program, why can't a TT manufacturer? I think part of it is that there is a pervasive culture thing in the industry. Interestingly, China has more ISO 9001 registered companies than the US by about a factor of 10 to 1. However, a quality control program is only as good as the quality of the original design of something. If the design is substandard to start with, having a quality control program isn't to help a whole lot.

I still can't believe some of the poor quality things I've come across in TTs. The photo below is a failed weld in aluminum framing in the superstructure of a TT. This is the sort of thing that happens without the existence of any codes and standards for building a TT. The weld is only on one of the 4 side of the square tubing. The weld is "incomplete" and poor quality. If you have an aluminum framed TT, take down a skylight trim or speaker and look at a weld and you may very likely see the same type of weld quality. If someone develops a leak in a seam or corner somewhere, perhaps it's due to a failed weld(s) something like this underneath? TT manufacturers get away with this sort of thing because it's hidden in walls and ceiling where you can't see it. Don't be thinking that your aluminum framed TT is way superior to how that Jayco was built in the video, because it just may not be.

Even if the cost of a TT did go up slightly, why would anyone not want to pay a bit more. The resale value would be higher, it would last longer and there'd be fewer things to get fixed during or after the warranty period.

dodge guy wrote:
If they slowed it down a bit and did quality work I don`t think a $2k jump in price would be objectionable as a buyer! I guarantee if they slowed it down a bit we wouldn`t be finding screws through water lines or wiring, things would be fastened properly and the sawdust would be vacuumed up instead of swept into the walls and floors. maybe they could even plug in a water heater once in a while too!

We don`t need Lexus (Toyota) quality.....rather just attention to detail and a little pride in what they build and sell!

dodge guy's post is dead on. I 110% agree.

I have been on a Jayco tour a few years ago and the video is how it was done then and I'm sure now too.

The end result of this quality situation comes down to the price point. At the time we went, Jayco only builds to orders, not to stock and they are busy all the time. They are providing the quality that sells their product. They have a full line up campers to help fit most all buyers budgets.

The first time RV buyer is normally not educated as much as the 2nd and third time buyer. Price is a big part of the purchase.

In our case, when we bought our first camper, I was the anal one looking for a better built unit and willing to pay a little more to get a better longer lasting unit. Had read and heard the horror stories before on cheap junk.

After looking through 24 brands we found Sunline. The day we walked in it at the dealer, it jumped out with the "WOW" factor, this is different. After doing more research Sunline built the assembly line process and used a lot of the same methods as the rest of the industry just Sunline was on hourly wage and not piece work/quota work. They had a better attention to detail and they put in the higher end appliances/features. This drove the price up above the average camper.

I remember well at the dealership while we where in awe at the better quality and the price was not that much higher, a younger couple came through whispering, a nice camper but no way can we afford this... my goodness no way. To them the $2 to $3,000 difference was a deal breaker to the point they would look no further. For us, we wanted nothing less.

Then we bought our 2nd camper, the one we have now. By then Sunline went under (Nov 2006) and we started branching out into the other higher end brands, this is what we found (2007 time frame)

Sunnybrook stopped making the Titan TT, their high end brand the year before. The prior year they only sold 7 of them in all the campers they made. The Sunset Creek took it's place and they were selling.

Jayco dropped the Designer TT several years before. The Eagle was then their highest quality offer. The Designer was still in a 5th wheel.

Artic Fox use to have an east coast plant, We looked at them here on the east coast and they where very nice, just the cabinets where too dark for us. They later closed up the east coast plant.

Komfort was still under the orignal owners at that time, they just they never made it this far east to be able to buy one. They now have been bought and sold 2 times. The older Komforts are not like the new ones today from the buddies I know who own them.

The Holiday Rambler, we never made it into one of them, however I have buddies who have the older higher quality ones. And now they are gone.

The FR Cardinal TT did not appeal to us.

We ended up buying a 1.5 year old used Sunline as we knew what we where getting in better quality and the prior owner barely used it. We still have it and will have for a good time to come.

So the higher quality when offered doesn't sell enough to keep the business afloat in a TT. 5th wheels are different, there you can start out on a higher end 5er, but it is in a totally different price league.

So how does the industry fix this quality issue? "We" the consumer are part of the industry.

When the industry offered the higher quality, the number of buyers where not large enough to keep it afloat.

The first time buyer or even the buyer who cannot afford the higher quality is left with what they can afford and still get a level of enjoyment from them.

If the consumer keeps buying the lower quality, well this quality build issue is not going to ever get much better.

If your looking for a TT in a higher quality with higher end appliances and build, you are going to need to do a lot of research and your options to purchase are going to be very limited. And be prepared to pay for it when you can find it.

If a 5er is an option for you, then your options open up and so does the cost increase.

Come to think of it if the RV Industry had a computerized assy data system like the automotive industry has it would be easy to track down who was responsible for installing what part on what trailer. Track the unit via the VIN number and each worker on that unit would initial each job function. Then if need be charge the worker back for the warranty..
It's not "rocket science".

A few years back my Starcraft (a Jayco company) was on its second trip back to the factory when one of the office people took me through the fifth wheel plant and since I had the hybrid, I was allowed to linger in the hybrid plant for awhile.

Since I lived within driving distance I picked it up at the factory both times. Second trip I had unfettered access to the large building that they took the major disasters like mine and rebuilt them. The only thing that impressed me was the care and concern that the rebuild shop guys exhibited to get things done right. They even did some upgrades to mine as a courtesy. The other plants it was pretty obvious that speed was all that mattered.

Mine had major water infiltration because some of the plumbing parts were left out of the walls. It took several trips out using full hookups before the water filled enough of the floor cavities and started running out the walls. It also had the wheel wells welded too far apart and the tires would rub the fender wells when the road had a crown. They had to have custom axles made to get the spacing correct.

I was given a lifetime mold and delamination warranty to keep me from suing for a complete replacement. We both would have been better off it they scrapped it. When the trailer was ready to go back to the plant for its third major delamination repair we decided enough was enough.

Our dealer also sold KZ products and gave us an excellent trade. I wonder to this day if Starcraft helped him dump the trailer. The dealer did discontinue carrying Starcraft the next year so I'm guessing they had enough.

If they slowed it down a bit and did quality work I don`t think a $2k jump in price would be objectionable as a buyer! I guarantee if they slowed it down a bit we wouldn`t be finding screws through water lines or wiring, things would be fastened properly and the sawdust would be vacuumed up instead of swept into the walls and floors. maybe they could even plug in a water heater once in a while too!

We don`t need Lexus (Toyota) quality.....rather just attention to detail and a little pride in what they build and sell!

Burbman, absolutely agree that most are capable of higher quality work, but they do what they're paid to do. Imagine what the RV lifestyle would be if our $20,000 - $50,000 trailers suddenly jumped to $150,000 or so. I don't know what the life expectancy of one of our midline trailers is, but most folks don't keep them for the number of years to warrant that price. This thread could be changed from "RV" to cars, or homes with just the subject changed. Our Rocky suits our needs and budget just as our cars are Ford and Chrysler and our home is not a McMansion. Pretty much assembly line work because that is the price point.