Interesting story from the AP

Bob Landry wrote:
Both GM and Chrysler should have been allowed to go belly up. The bailout was to cover the unions unfunded liabilities and nothing else. Over that last century, dozens of car makers have gone south either because of less than desirable models or an unsustainable overhead. Those companies either went away for good, returned to the market with a better product and business model, or they were replaced with companies who would and did just that. There's no reason that the automotive "gene pool" could not have been cleansed this time around, other than the unions. They were merely propped up on the backs of the shareholders and that was nothing but wrong. For that reason alone I will never buy a GM or Chrysler product

Your article is basicly correct except for little detail that Chrysler did not have a stock at that time. It was all converted to Mercedes Bendz stock
mm49

Who says they ae the most trouble free? Come see the bills I have from mine. I have a 06 with 80K on it and it has cost a bundle in hoses, bearings and glowplugs. Now I have to change the plate in the rear of the transfer case.
http://www.8-lug.com/tech/1210_8l_gm_transfer_case_pump_rub_repair/viewall.html
Chevy has known about these problems since 2001 and won't fix them. Go to the Duramax forums and read up on them, then brag about Chevy.

lbrjet wrote:

MARK VANDERBENT wrote:
Hanibal said it right !! Those that hate this government and what they choose to do to save jobs should pack up and leave!!! Go live in japan or china and support their system of life and work.

You support Japan and China every time you buy electronics or shop at Walmart.

BUT...BUT, that isn't fair telling them that, because they WON'T stop supporting those folks. We can honestly say we have NOT been in a Walmart in over 18 months, nor any of the other china superstores, like Kmart, JCP, sears and the likes, in well over 3 years. We shop the local mom & pop stores so they can remain in business, but we do look at each label and refuse to buy china. American continent countries, we will support.

MARK VANDERBENT wrote:
Hanibal said it right !! Those that hate this government and what they choose to do to save jobs should pack up and leave!!! Go live in japan or china and support their system of life and work.

You support Japan and China every time you buy electronics or shop at Walmart.

45Ricochet wrote:

catfishmontana wrote:
Deleted since this thread is getting way off track


Derrick

LOL
Some folks just can't follow rules :B

LOL. I deleted it myself before a couple fellow members had their cheese slide off their crackers.

Union contracts are good for a few years and then get renegotiated. Ours is five years. If a UAW member with GM started at 18 in 2002 with health care for life being in the contract and every contract after that NOT including health care for life, does he retire with health care for life or does he retire with the retirement package included in the contract at the time of retirement? I don't know as our pension only with no health care retirement hasn't changed much from contract to contract over the 30+ years I've been with the company. But I have overheard some of the older guys talk about retiring earlier or later depending on the current contract or the predicted potential for the next contract.

Jeez Don... I really wonder if you even bother reading anymore before simply replying to me... I have no idea where you are coming up with these arguments AGAINST me. You seem to be thinking that I am making some argument that I am not making. Please review... maybe even READ it...

One: I never said I blame the workers for the contract. I have REPEATEDLY said congratulations to the union and the workers for getting such a generous contract. They are concerned with getting the best deal possible for themselves. I think this is a pretty generous contract. This entire thread was discussing why GM is RAISING prices. They are forced to raise prices because they have to compensate for higher legacy costs. That is a function of poor management. It is NOT the unions fault, it is NOT the line workers fault.

Two: It will be a LONG time before pensions are off the books for GM. The newer hires won't get a pension when they are eligible to retire, but EVERYONE else gets a pension. GM has to set aside money (that's another argument... is management funding these pension plans fully???) for all the current retirees and all the future retirees until they are off the books. For someone that started working at 18 years old at GM in 2008, that's a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time before that person is no longer collecting a pension or health insurance.

Three: I never once said, implied, suggested or intended to suggest that these workers SHOULDN'T get their pension. Where in the world do you get these ideas? I mean, seriously... did you even read a single word that I wrote??? These are contractually obligated costs, you are damn right I think the employees should receive them. If I worked at a job that promised me a defined compensation package at the conclusion of my work, I would expect it too and that would be part of my retirement plan. Again though, the whole point of this thread was why GM is raising costs. I am simply pointing out the fact that GM is saddled with higher legacy costs that Ford or Chrysler, and the only way to pay for those costs is to charge more for the vehicle. Shame on management for making such a generous package that they are struggling to fulfill, congratulations to the workers who are able to reap the rewards of their hard work.

catfishmontana wrote:
Deleted since this thread is getting way off track


Derrick

LOL
Some folks just can't follow rules :B

Deleted since this thread is getting way off track


Derrick

Before this thread gets the lock put to it let me say this.

One: I did not negotiate the pension contract it was in place when I showed up. So don't put the blame on me. With that said it is part of MY contract and as such I expect it to be honored!
Two: All new hires coming in since 2009 will have a Company matched 401K without a pension. So no I repeat no pensions to get in the why of profits.
Three: Some of you think our retires are getting rich off of the Company right? Well they worked their a$$e$ off for what they get! The only ones getting health care are the 30 year retirees! My BL retired from here after 39 years of working mostly 12 hour days seven days a week for 15 years! So sorry if I feel the Company owes him what the company told him he would get!

80% of the people making comments about what the auto worker would not last one day in a assembly plant. Would like to finish this but duty calls, I have to bail out the know nothing boss that can't keep his hands off the machines.

Don