"Jack" digital antenna

wmoses wrote:
My Jack replacement head arrived yesterday. Box was a little "used" and had a small 1" dia superficial hole in one corner. It had better be in good shape when I open it. It will be installed next camping trip when I will first see how many channels I get with the Winegard antenna & Wingman and then after installing the Jack head, how many I get afterewards. An update will be posted to this thread at that time. Might not be for a couple of months. :( :(

I'm looking forward to it.

My Jack replacement head arrived yesterday. Box was a little "used" and had a small 1" dia superficial hole in one corner. It had better be in good shape when I open it. It will be installed next camping trip when I will first see how many channels I get with the Winegard antenna & Wingman and then after installing the Jack head, how many I get afterewards. An update will be posted to this thread at that time. Might not be for a couple of months. :( :(

westend wrote:
The Grey-Hoverman array is not available anywhere at retail, AFAIK. The rights to the design are lodged in a free-source organization, not to be reproduced for profit.
Fortunately, a handy person with a few hours of free time can build one for very cheap. I think I have about three hours and $20 into mine.

Thanks for the reply. Very nice job, if that is the one you are working on.

Well said Jeff.

In some cases a very directional antenna actually does not perform as well as one with a wider pattern. Most noticeable in mountain areas or lots of buildings or tall trees near. I have had to go to Omni antennas in some cases to make base stations perform better. I like the wider beam width of the Jack. In any case it is an excellent choice. I too had the wingman on mine but the smaller foot print of the Jack is really nice.

One thing about the Jack that they call a 'feature' is a wider beam width so it doesn't have to be pointed as closely. That's actually just what happens with lower gain antennas. When I was playing with those antennas I didn't feel that this complaint about needing to point more closely was a problem at all. While it's true I'll sit there and tweak for max signal maybe more than others, there was in reality very little difference in 'feel' between the two except the batwing is a little hotter on UHF and a lot hotter on VHF. Whatever works..

wmoses wrote:

westend wrote:
Hoping it works out well and your channel reception increases. If you want to mess around with a mast and different antennas, I think I found a winner with the antenna I built on the Gray-Hoverman design The single array I use picks up anything within 40 mi.

Thanks.

Interesting looking antenna. I have but one simple question - how come this is not available on campers? Maybe this is a good opportunity for some intrepid entrepreneur on this forum.

The Grey-Hoverman array is not available anywhere at retail, AFAIK. The rights to the design are lodged in a free-source organization, not to be reproduced for profit.
Fortunately, a handy person with a few hours of free time can build one for very cheap. I think I have about three hours and $20 into mine.

westend wrote:
Hoping it works out well and your channel reception increases. If you want to mess around with a mast and different antennas, I think I found a winner with the antenna I built on the Gray-Hoverman design The single array I use picks up anything within 40 mi.

Thanks.

Interesting looking antenna. I have but one simple question - how come this is not available on campers? Maybe this is a good opportunity for some intrepid entrepreneur on this forum.

wmoses wrote:

westend wrote:
What are the chances that users that replaced their Batwing with the Jack antenna increased the conductivity of the circuit when doing the replacement? It may be that after mounting the Jack antenna, a user tried to better aim the unit. It may be that a user is positioned differently on the ground, also. There are a lot of unknowns with this and I trust more to the guy that took the time with his $60K analyzer doing comparisons.

I agree that the conditions before and after the replacement could be different and yes there are many variables outside of simple head-vs-head real world test. Technical tests on a bench are logically and scientifically the ones that can stand up to proper scrutiny. That is why many things discussed on these fora fall apart as they are based on anecdotal evidence. :)

As for my "test" - I will likely not have the exact same conditions when making my tests so to "average out" my samples I have to take more before making a decision on which is better for me. I likely will not have a report for several months.

BTW - I also have a portable satellite disk and a DirectTV box. As an engineer I focus on the bottom line and the solution ... yesterday! ;)

Hoping it works out well and your channel reception increases. If you want to mess around with a mast and different antennas, I think I found a winner with the antenna I built on the Gray-Hoverman design The single array I use picks up anything within 40 mi.

westend wrote:
What are the chances that users that replaced their Batwing with the Jack antenna increased the conductivity of the circuit when doing the replacement? It may be that after mounting the Jack antenna, a user tried to better aim the unit. It may be that a user is positioned differently on the ground, also. There are a lot of unknowns with this and I trust more to the guy that took the time with his $60K analyzer doing comparisons.

I agree that the conditions before and after the replacement could be different and yes there are many variables outside of simple head-vs-head real world test. Technical tests on a bench are logically and scientifically the ones that can stand up to proper scrutiny. That is why many things discussed on these fora fall apart as they are based on anecdotal evidence. :)

As for my "test" - I will likely not have the exact same conditions when making my tests so to "average out" my samples I have to take more before making a decision on which is better for me. I likely will not have a report for several months.

BTW - I also have a portable satellite disk and a DirectTV box. As an engineer I focus on the bottom line and the solution ... yesterday! ;)

SCVJeff wrote:
I did an Apples to Apples comparison Jack to Batwing, with and without the Wingman. I'm on an iphone otherwise I'd post the link, but someone posted it around the beginning of this thread. Check it out and you'll see why I keep saying that.

Okay, I read your comparison and the synopsis that jumped out at me is as follows:

SCVJeff on RVNet wrote:
"...a shoot-out with my existing Winegard Batwing antenna with the Wingman add-on. This is the Jack replacement head that is a direct replacement on the Winegard mast.
...
This is a known good batwing antenna used here. So depending on the age and condition of your Batwing, and whether or not it has a Wingman attached, there may be significant differences compared to these tests.
...
on VHF, the Batwing clearly shines over Jack. There are too many VHF stations across the country to ignore this. The other thing that bothers me is the way that the other carriers decay when rotating the Jack. They appear to not be linear...
...
Some keep bringing up the point that the Jack is "easier to point"... Essentially the same.
...
on UHF there is close to a 6db difference between the two antennas."

Thanks for that comprehensive study. This is the setup I have (as shown on my old 2010 RV with pristine antenna and Wingman):



All I can say is this - when I have been out the last few times (in my 2014 RV with even more pristine antenna and Wingman :)) I noticed that I can only get maybe 1 channel when I was supposed to get maybe 5 or 6 (according to TV Antenna Helper app). These experiences were in State Parks here in Texas and the lots were pretty open so trees were not really an issue.

So there are improvements to be made. I don't have time or inclination to analyze the technical reasons why this is the case (but am appreciative of the work you did!) - I just want to see improvement in the number of channels I can watch. The replacement head cost me $34 + S&H so I figure things can only get better.

I will be sure to report back here what my testing bears. :)