I went in tonight to work on a deal for a new Jayco Hummingbird 17RK. It has the perfect layout for us as we re-enter the RVing world after becoming empty nesters. Then a bit of snooping caused me to slow down. I thought I would check with the expert opinions here to see if I am interpretting correctly. The sticker on the side says a cargo carrying capacity of 646# should never be exceeded. On the same sticker, it says a full tank of water will weigh 262#. We plan a lot of dry camping and this leaves only 384# of cargo left before exceeding limits. For a light weekend, this is reasonable, but for anly longer routes we may take (or if our college daughter decides to come with for a weekend!) it seems that there is little cargo carrying margin left.What am I missing? Why would a builder as experienced as Jayco build something so close to the edge of the cargo carrying capacity?

Because it is a single axle short (under 20') light weight trailer....but it does come with nitrogen filled tires

megsfolks wrote: Why would a builder as experienced as Jayco build something so close to the edge of the cargo carrying capacity?Because people will buy it. That's the answer. It's very light. Some people like that and will take it in exchange for much less cargo capacity. Yes, this is a deal breaker if you're not just an overnighter type RVer. Sounds like you need a bit more. Good thing you caught it

Also, I'm not so sure that dinette is all that comfortable for long term sitting.If you are not limited by length for driveway parking etc., consider a little larger floorplan at the same time, keeping the weight down. If your plan is to travel for any length of time, I would want to have dual axles . I preferred a non slide floorplan (Jayflight 23RB) using aluminum skin and no slide to save weight, with a sofa, dinette and Queen island bed for increased comfort and larger holding tanks. There are a few floorplans on the market like that in the 6,000# neighborhood with a 700-750# real tongue weight. At 27' I don't find it any more difficult to move around (back into tight spaces) than the smaller trailers I also tow.

megsfolks wrote:I went in tonight to work on a deal for a new Jayco Hummingbird 17RK. What am I missing? Why would a builder as experienced as Jayco build something so close to the edge of the cargo carrying capacity?Simple. The purpose is to offer a travel trailer with a GVWR within the capability of smaller SUVs and minivans ... so unless this is your situation why would you want to suffer with such a restriction? Keep in mind also that this trailer's real world CCC, with any options or accessories it may have, plus the weight of a battery and any water you may carry in the tanks will further reduce the rated factory CCC. When we downsized from a 24' triple bunk bed trailer to our current 19' couples trailer I considered at least 1500 lbs of available CCC to be minimal, as it turned out I have in excess of a ton, leaving me with the ability to carry whatever we may want without having to be concerned about exceeding any of the trailer's various ratings.

Good catch Mike and Lisa. Too many folks don't discover this important information until after they purchase.

Jayco Hummingbird CCC---is this a deal breaker?

GrandpaKip
Explorer II
Jun 29, 2016
The CCC just means how much weight the trailer can hold (or carry). Nowhere could I find that it is calculated while moving or not moving. However, I would assume (yeah, I know) that it's kinda dumb to think that a trailer will never move, at least once or twice.
I'm surely not gonna make guests step on a scale (unless I want them to go away).
Since the RV industry figures the Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating into the CCC at 154 lbs each, that means I've got 616 lbs extra capacity going down the road, since the sleepers are in the truck. So, I've gotta figure out what else I wanna tote along.
Huntindog
Explorer
Jun 29, 2016
That verbage says "CARRIED" as in under tow. In some places it may be legal to carry occupants in a TT. I know for a fact that is the case for 5vers.
Jayco builds 5vers. I bet that verbage was simply carried over from the 5vers.

No matter.There are other things wrong with this anyway

A static load is much less than a dynamic load.
I know when I installed my Onan generator, I had to allow either 2.5 or 3X the weight for dynamic loads... Per Onan.

So a TT set up for camp can hold much more weight than it can bouncing down the road...

Then there is the setup for camp factor. It usually involves stabilizer jacks... They will support some of the weight instead of the axles.
SoundGuy
Explorer
Jun 28, 2016
Old-Biscuit wrote:
You can go to Jayco and read the EXACT verbiage I posted
But here it is again

CCC means the maximum weight of all passengers, personal items, food, fresh water, LP Gas, tools, other cargo and dealer-installed accessories that can be carried by the unit. CCC is equal to or less than GVWR minus UVW.

What is so difficult understanding that 'Weight of Humans' has to be accounted for......axle/suspension/tires/wheels be it truck, car, rv, motorhome have to carry OUR weight also.

No different than a tool box in tow vehicle or in RV
Weight is Weight :S

You still haven't provided a link ... how convenient. :R Of course the weight of passengers applies to the CCC of a vehicle that is traveling with passengers in it ... BUT unlike a motorhome a travel trailer does not travel with passengers in it and therefore their weight is irrelevant to the trailer's CCC and GVWR. When parked the static gross weight of any travel trailer could could easily exceed the trailer's GVWR ... or would you rather insist everyone who enters the trailer first step on a scale so you can ensure the total static GVW of the trailer as it sits there in a campground doesn't exceed it's rated GVWR?!! Your argument becomes more ridiculous the more you argue it. :S
Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Jun 28, 2016
SoundGuy wrote:
Old-Biscuit wrote:
Jayco Website even includes this info about CCC...........passengers included.
Axle Ratings are just that ----weight limits----be it cases of bottle water or my big butt.

CCC means the maximum weight of all passengers, personal items, food, fresh water, LP Gas, tools, other cargo and dealer-installed accessories that can be carried by the unit. CCC is equal to or less than GVWR minus UVW.

Show me a link which in effect means I have to say to everyone that may visit my trailer - "Ummmm, excuse me but you'll have to step on the scales first before entering so I can determine if your weight will exceed the limits of my trailer's GVWR". Yeah right, like that's going to happen! :S

You can go to Jayco and read the EXACT verbiage I posted
But here it is again

CCC means the maximum weight of all passengers, personal items, food, fresh water, LP Gas, tools, other cargo and dealer-installed accessories that can be carried by the unit. CCC is equal to or less than GVWR minus UVW.

What is so difficult understanding that 'Weight of Humans' has to be accounted for......axle/suspension/tires/wheels be it truck, car, rv, motorhome have to carry OUR weight also.

No different than a tool box in tow vehicle or in RV
Weight is Weight :S
SoundGuy
Explorer
Jun 28, 2016
Old-Biscuit wrote:
Jayco Website even includes this info about CCC...........passengers included.
Axle Ratings are just that ----weight limits----be it cases of bottle water or my big butt.

CCC means the maximum weight of all passengers, personal items, food, fresh water, LP Gas, tools, other cargo and dealer-installed accessories that can be carried by the unit. CCC is equal to of less than GVWR minus UVW.

Show me a link which in effect means I have to say to everyone that may visit my trailer - "Ummmm, excuse me but you'll have to step on the scales first before entering so I can determine if your weight will exceed the limits of my trailer's GVWR". Yeah right, like that's going to happen! :S
Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Jun 28, 2016
GrandpaKip wrote:
SoundGuy wrote:
dahkota wrote:
One thing people forget: the cargo capacity is as valid when not moving as when moving. Include the weight of the occupants, too.

What in the world are you talking about? :h ... no one tows a trailer with anyone in it! Real world trailer CCC is simply the difference between the trailer's dry weight as it sits there ready to be hitched to a tow vehicle and it's GVWR, the most it must ever weigh fully loaded and ready to camp ... has nothing to do with the weight of occupants in the tow vehicle. Likewise, available CCC has nothing to do with how many people may be in the trailer when it's parked. :R

What he's talking about is the Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating. Take the number of sleeping positions and multiply by 154 pounds. This number is also figured into the CCC by the manufacturer.
If you think about it, putting people into the camper is the same as adding stuff. The axles are rated to carry a certain amount of weight, whether dead or alive, moving or not.

Correct.........

Jayco Website even includes this info about CCC...........passengers included.
Axle Ratings are just that ----weight limits----be it cases of bottle water or my big butt.

CCC means the maximum weight of all passengers, personal items, food, fresh water, LP Gas, tools, other cargo and dealer-installed accessories that can be carried by the unit. CCC is equal to of less than GVWR minus UVW.
GrandpaKip
Explorer II
Jun 28, 2016
SoundGuy wrote:
dahkota wrote:
One thing people forget: the cargo capacity is as valid when not moving as when moving. Include the weight of the occupants, too.

SoundGuy wrote:
What in the world are you talking about? :h ... no one tows a trailer with anyone in it! Real world trailer CCC is simply the difference between the trailer's dry weight as it sits there ready to be hitched to a tow vehicle and it's GVWR, the most it must ever weigh fully loaded and ready to camp ... has nothing to do with the weight of occupants in the tow vehicle. Likewise, available CCC has nothing to do with how many people may be in the trailer when it's parked. :R

GrandpaKip wrote:
What he's talking about is the Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating. Take the number of sleeping positions and multiply by 154 pounds. This number is also figured into the CCC by the manufacturer.

Rubbish ... in practical terms static load is irrelevant. Obviously if one tried to load the weight of 20 people in a trailer this size the OP is considering excessive loading on the trailer's suspension components and frame could be an issue. Obviously that's not a practical scenario - this is a small couple's trailer intended for use by an adult couple ... surely you're not suggesting if they invite a couple of friends over they're going to insist on weighing everyone to ensure this so-called "Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating" isn't exceeded. Good grief, surely you jest. :S

Nope, not jesting. Evidently the RV industry doesn't think it's rubbish, either. All I did is look it up on the Google. I had never heard of it before. Hmm, I learn something new every day.
Mike_Up
Explorer
Jun 28, 2016
megsfolks wrote:
I went in tonight to work on a deal for a new Jayco Hummingbird 17RK. It has the perfect layout for us as we re-enter the RVing world after becoming empty nesters. Then a bit of snooping caused me to slow down. I thought I would check with the expert opinions here to see if I am interpretting correctly.

The sticker on the side says a cargo carrying capacity of 646# should never be exceeded. On the same sticker, it says a full tank of water will weigh 262#. We plan a lot of dry camping and this leaves only 384# of cargo left before exceeding limits. For a light weekend, this is reasonable, but for anly longer routes we may take (or if our college daughter decides to come with for a weekend!) it seems that there is little cargo carrying margin left.

What am I missing? Why would a builder as experienced as Jayco build something so close to the edge of the cargo carrying capacity?

You have the same cargo capability as a pop up. Travel lite, pack lite, and pack your tow vehicle instead of your camper.
SoundGuy
Explorer
Jun 28, 2016
dahkota wrote:
One thing people forget: the cargo capacity is as valid when not moving as when moving. Include the weight of the occupants, too.

SoundGuy wrote:
What in the world are you talking about? :h ... no one tows a trailer with anyone in it! Real world trailer CCC is simply the difference between the trailer's dry weight as it sits there ready to be hitched to a tow vehicle and it's GVWR, the most it must ever weigh fully loaded and ready to camp ... has nothing to do with the weight of occupants in the tow vehicle. Likewise, available CCC has nothing to do with how many people may be in the trailer when it's parked. :R

GrandpaKip wrote:
What he's talking about is the Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating. Take the number of sleeping positions and multiply by 154 pounds. This number is also figured into the CCC by the manufacturer.

Rubbish ... in practical terms static load is irrelevant. Obviously if one tried to load the weight of 20 people in a trailer this size the OP is considering excessive loading on the trailer's suspension components and frame could be an issue. Obviously that's not a practical scenario - this is a small couple's trailer intended for use by an adult couple ... surely you're not suggesting if they invite a couple of friends over they're going to insist on weighing everyone to ensure this so-called "Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating" isn't exceeded. Good grief, surely you jest. :S
braindead0
Explorer
Jun 28, 2016
One of the first things I check when looking is how much carrying capacity remains with ALL tanks full. A 100gallon black tank is useless if it's unsafe to tow full. Over the years I've seen many that would be overweight (sometimes horribly) if the tanks are full. I'm sure they justify it by claiming you'll never have all tanks full, however that's BS unless you plan on never adding water to the fresh tank while camping.

I would move on. There are tandem axle trailers in the 17' class by Nash and I think Winnebego TT's.. probably others.. that should afford more carrying.

Our cheapo Econ 16RB single axle even after upgrading black from 5 to 25 gallon still has 400# of carrying capacity (that's based on actual ready to roll weight).