Lightening tongue weight

rexlion wrote:
MargaretB, I think you could quite safely reduce hitch weight to 10% or 11%. I haven't read everything you may have posted about your rig, but I assume you're using some sort of sway control? You could start by subtracting one LP tank and one battery. One tank will last from 1 to 3 weeks depending on usage, provided you are not cold-weather camping. And a single battery will keep you going quite well for a couple of days, or longer if you have a generator or a solar panel or shore power. I carry a 75W solar panel and plug it into the front pigtail (the one that goes to your tow vehicle) while at the campground.

Speaking of generators, some people mount them on the back bumper (after making sure their bumper will support the weight) and this will reduce hitch weight also.

I have towed various trailers (from 24' long to about 10') for somewhat over 300,000 miles, using vehicles ranging from a half ton pickup to a Dodge Omni. I have only had a sway problem one time... and that was with a 4'x8' (10' overall length) utility trailer! It was poorly loaded, with a long, heavy steel part sticking out the back about 2' and there was a negative tongue weight. Yes, this was when I was young and foolish and didn't know better. But my point is, dangerous sway is not all that common. The way to avoid sway is to maintain proper hitch weight, and when in doubt, use a sway control hitch as insurance. Oh, and keep the speed at a reasonable level, like 55 mph (or at most 60 mph, when you are not in CA, obviously) because sway tendency can increase at higher speeds. At 55 your sway control will protect you pretty well from rare events like unusually violent crosswinds and such.

Getting a bit off topic now, I just want to comment that it amazes me what the manufacturers call "ultra light" sometimes. My '04 Rockwood was just a tad under 24' long and had a slide like yours, but it only weighed 3400 lb dry. By comparison, your 230 is (if I pulled the right specs) a tad over 25' long and 4920 lb dry... not so ultra light IMO!

BTW you don't want to relocate a battery to the interior, as the battery can vent unhealthy gases. Just thought I'd mention it.

When we measured the box, it came in at just over 22". The hitch would make it longer, of course, but the box itself is pretty close to 22'. And the dry weight was about 5000# - not so "ultra-lite," to my way of thinking. We have a sturdy WDH and a sway bar. Thanks for the s=information about the battery - I didn't know that they can emit noxious vapors. We've thought about just leaving one battery and one propane tank home, because at least for the next few months, our camping will be short trips with full hookups. Thanks for all the useful information you gave!

MargaretB, I think you could quite safely reduce hitch weight to 10% or 11%. I haven't read everything you may have posted about your rig, but I assume you're using some sort of sway control? You could start by subtracting one LP tank and one battery. One tank will last from 1 to 3 weeks depending on usage, provided you are not cold-weather camping. And a single battery will keep you going quite well for a couple of days, or longer if you have a generator or a solar panel or shore power. I carry a 75W solar panel and plug it into the front pigtail (the one that goes to your tow vehicle) while at the campground.

Speaking of generators, some people mount them on the back bumper (after making sure their bumper will support the weight) and this will reduce hitch weight also.

I have towed various trailers (from 24' long to about 10') for somewhat over 300,000 miles, using vehicles ranging from a half ton pickup to a Dodge Omni. I have only had a sway problem one time... and that was with a 4'x8' (10' overall length) utility trailer! It was poorly loaded, with a long, heavy steel part sticking out the back about 2' and there was a negative tongue weight. Yes, this was when I was young and foolish and didn't know better. But my point is, dangerous sway is not all that common. The way to avoid sway is to maintain proper hitch weight, and when in doubt, use a sway control hitch as insurance. Oh, and keep the speed at a reasonable level, like 55 mph (or at most 60 mph, when you are not in CA, obviously) because sway tendency can increase at higher speeds. At 55 your sway control will protect you pretty well from rare events like unusually violent crosswinds and such.

Getting a bit off topic now, I just want to comment that it amazes me what the manufacturers call "ultra light" sometimes. My '04 Rockwood was just a tad under 24' long and had a slide like yours, but it only weighed 3400 lb dry. By comparison, your 230 is (if I pulled the right specs) a tad over 25' long and 4920 lb dry... not so ultra light IMO!

BTW you don't want to relocate a battery to the interior, as the battery can vent unhealthy gases. Just thought I'd mention it.

rbpru wrote:
cekkkI would guess your question about over loading aircraft would bring two different responses from a weekend flyer or a Bush Pilot.

You're right! "Most dangerous jobs in America - it's the bush pilots, the air-taxi operators and the small commercial flyers. 2008 fatality rate: 72.4 per 100,000 workers." (CNN Money)

It's sure not lack of experience. It's that constant pressure to push the envelope. Sure proves the old adage, "no old, bold pilots." :B

jaycocreek wrote:
... To the op...Try putting stuff in the back of the trailer if there is a door there instead of adding it to the so called payload of the vehicle.I sometimes put my generator just inside the door and or extra water/cooler etc instead of in the pickup bed.Easier to load and unload those items too.

We do't have a rear door, but I'm thinking that if we get a generator, it can travel in the bathroom, which is small enough to hold it securely with plenty of padding. The only other place to put it is under the bed, which is in the front.

With a F150 that means unless you specifically order one with HD package your towing IS LIMITED to 5,000 lbs MAX per Fords towing guide

You need to re-read that towing guide..5K Max is without WD hitch per Ford towing as the F-250/350 SRW is 6K max.The difference in curb weight of my sons HD 2500 and my F-150 is like 300lbs and that's not enough to save anyone from anything or make any difference in a trailer pushing the tow vehicle around.

To the op...Try putting stuff in the back of the trailer if there is a door there instead of adding it to the so called payload of the vehicle.I sometimes put my generator just inside the door and or extra water/cooler etc instead of in the pickup bed.Easier to load and unload those items too.

Dakota98 wrote:
Thank you Gdetrailer

I now see the light & error of my ways.

DW weighed herself last night & she's at 108#. If she stays home next outing, I'll be under capacity by 67#

PS: I was the stunt driver in that Toyota, pulling the space shuttle. They hired me due to my experience, and no animals were harmed during filming. :B

:R

Sarcasm and hiding your head in the sand will still result putting folks in harms way..

Do what you will but I can tell you from my own personal experience of having to dodge deer not once but TWICE while towing and at high way speeds :E and having a heavier tow vehicle than what is needed HAS saved my bacon. I would not want to do that kind of "stunt driving" with a lesser vehicle.

I have also experienced towing in inclement weather.. Drove THROUGH a "micro burst" once.. Clear day driving and ran into a super cell thunderstorm which produced straight line winds in excess of 60 MPH (AKA MICRO BURST)!

The winds were coming from the drivers side so pulling onto the berm was not an option since most berms tend to have a pretty steep angle which would have moved the center of gravity of the trailer to the passenger side.. That would make tipping over much easier..

I slowed down to 10-15 MPH and followed a convoy of semis doing the same thing.. FOR TEN MILES in heavy winds and rain.

A lesser tow vehicle would not have been as stable..

And just so you know, I AM towing a 26ft TT with my 3/4 ton and it tows beautifully. Knowing I do not have to make a choice between hauling a bag of potato chips or just ONE potato chip is priceless in my book..

My current truck has 3415 lb cargo weight rating and with our trailer, gear and passengers I STILL have 1.5K lbs left over..

The OP says they are OK NOW but if they WANT to take more they will not be OK.. To me having to worry about weights each and every time would be a shear hassle and not worth it to go camping..

Dakota, justifying being wrong for yourself is bad enough but then you try to justify the OPs situation who is a novice in the towing world is just plain dumb.

I give the OP CREDIT on recognizing that they are very close if not on or slightly over the ratings and they ARE ACTIVELY TRYING TO FIX THAT by researching.

They have found out what I have known all along.. The "1/2 ton" trucks are over rated and it takes a base regular cab 4x2 WITH a HD package in order to get the high cargo/towing ratings.

Dealers tend to not get 1/2 ton trucks with the HD package, nor do they get base models.. Nope, they get the fully loaded with all the bells and whistles without the HD package.. With a F150 that means unless you specifically order one with HD package your towing IS LIMITED to 5,000 lbs MAX per Fords towing guide.

Yeah, my F250 doesn't get 22 MPG when not towing and I drive it as a daily driver (500 miles per week) but I am OK with that.. I bought a truck to do a truck job not a "boulevard queen" job..

In many respects my F250 cost LESS than buying a gussied up F150 with HD package and Eco Boost and I am FINE with that :B The 6.2 gas engine doesn't even get a hard work out when towing!

carringb wrote:
Higher tongue weights are more stable for the trailer, provided the tow vehicle can manage the tongue weight (i.e. not overladed, no front axle off-loading). As tongue weight (as a percentage) goes down, the speed where the trailer becomes unstable also goes down. Other factors include the moment of inertia (where the most is in relation to the trailer's axles) and center of gravity, as well as trailer wheelbase and suspension, axle, and tire stiffness.

In short.... there's a lot of variables when it comes to trailer vehicle dynamics. Reducing tongue weight, or having an insufficient vehicle doesn't guarantee a problem will happen, but it certainly increases the probability.

If you were moving a trailer occasionally across town, you can often fudge the ratings quite a but since speeds will be lower, and other factors like traffic, fatigue, and weather are easier to accommodate for. But to be shopping for a new truck being used for regular RVing, I think it would be nuts not to just buy something that meets all your specifications.

Agree with the above. I will add if one additional passenger or the weight of Kayak's causes instability than the combo is poorly matched or poorly set up.
On a bright clear sunny day being within the ratings and having a well matched combo may not matter.
But when the unforeseen happens and the weather goes south. Or the traffic is bad and the road is steep and curvy being within your ratings can make all the difference.

Higher tongue weights are more stable for the trailer, provided the tow vehicle can manage the tongue weight (i.e. not overladed, no front axle off-loading). As tongue weight (as a percentage) goes down, the speed where the trailer becomes unstable also goes down. Other factors include the moment of inertia (where the most is in relation to the trailer's axles) and center of gravity, as well as trailer wheelbase and suspension, axle, and tire stiffness.

In short.... there's a lot of variables when it comes to trailer vehicle dynamics. Reducing tongue weight, or having an insufficient vehicle doesn't guarantee a problem will happen, but it certainly increases the probability.

If you were moving a trailer occasionally across town, you can often fudge the ratings quite a but since speeds will be lower, and other factors like traffic, fatigue, and weather are easier to accommodate for. But to be shopping for a new truck being used for regular RVing, I think it would be nuts not to just buy something that meets all your specifications.

cekkk

The debate is as old as the invention of the wheel and the pack animals before that.

Some people do not feel secure with anything less than a 20% safety factor. Others feel perfectly content to push the design limits.

I believe this is particularly true with Pick-ups, because most of the time they just haul air from place to place. On those occasions when they are press into service to do what they were designed to do; the wear and tear encountered while running at or a bit over the limit is considered acceptable. There are limits of course, but as mentioned feeling “safe” is highly subjective.

I would guess your question about over loading aircraft would bring two different responses from a weekend flyer or a Bush Pilot.

"All these super experienced RVers that are being talked about here that are overweight are not relavant, as she and her DH are not so confident and experienced."

In the flying game there's an expression, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots..." Guess the rest. So would these "experienced" RVers be comfortable taking off a few pounds overweight?