Maximum 5th wheel weight for SRW

NC Hauler wrote:

As also stated, it would depend on heavy one loads their 5er, but, how does one "speculate" on how much "stuff" they'll load into their 5er? Sometimes when you have more cargo carrying capacity, one tends to pack more into the unit because, "they can"...

Even if you speculate accurately how much stuff you will load into your 5er... you still have to speculate the weight distribution. Our rig has a huge closet that sits directly above the pin. The addition of my wife's shoes alone could put many over their TV GVWR.

Old-Biscuit wrote:

hmknightnc wrote:
As others have said you are limited by tire capacity with a SRW 1 Ton truck. It highly depends on the truck and gear you have in the truck but as a general rule with a 1 Ton SRW you should stay below 14k# GVWR of a FW, for a 3/4 Ton you are looking at no more than 12k# GVWR FW. The trailer you are looking at is squarely in Dually country

There's the MFGs published specs and numbers and then there's the real world........

The above quote is in the Real World.

I get a chuckle when folks post MFGs. published numbers without posting ALL the little caveats/footnotes that are noted in the tiny print.

By the time the truck is optioned out and one actually goes across a set of scales loaded up camp ready they can't believe the numbers.....where did all that payload capacity go? what happened to that magical tow rating? my tires can't handle that kind of weight?
the truck weighs more than the sticker? Bah.bah.bah......

I wish MFGs would not publish any numbers and just state.........you need to weigh your truck in order to know what it can carry and/or haul!

Agree 100% with you on what manufacturers publish as to how much one can tow with their trucks, it's joke...one really needs to do the math and look at all the specs.

I think an 18,700# 5er is too heavy for a 3500 SRW truck, if OP doesn't want a dually, they may want to look at getting a lighter 5er.

Ram dually in my sig has RAWR of 9750, GVWR of 14,000# and with 4:10, a GCWR of over 36,000# (though I would NEVER think of that), and the RAWR could be higher by going to higher weight rated tires. But, my 5er weighs in at only 16,050, with a 3300# pin weight, having weighed my combo at this time, I'm well under the trucks GVWR.

As also stated, it would depend on heavy one loads their 5er, but, how does one "speculate" on how much "stuff" they'll load into their 5er? Sometimes when you have more cargo carrying capacity, one tends to pack more into the unit because, "they can"...

I'd tend to err to side of safety and either go with a lighter 5er or look at any of the Big 3's 3500 Dually's.....

Chris,

To compare cummins Dodge with yours......not a GOOD comparison. Yeah he may have 3.42 gears, BUT, his trans IIRC is in the mid 3-1 first gear range, you might be at best in the 2.8-2.9 range. So he may very well have an overall low lower than you have in first gear. Not goign to compare torque, other than stock, you would probably be 60% of what he has. Being as I do not know your specs with your bombed motor......you two may be close in the torque range, but still his overall low would be lower, so he is better off than you.

Not sure that one can use the gear ratio as a best tow rig these days as compared to the past. One needs to look at the whole picture.

For me, I try not to tow a trailer that is more than 2x the grawr. So if a SW rig has what I have seen as a 7500 lbs, max trailer is 15K, assuming I have the payload for the hw, people, and other asst and sundry junque one carries in the tow rig. I really do not care what the manufactures tow rating is. Being as I had a rig with a manufactures gcwr lower than its gvwr, that was interesting finding that out after running down the road at upwards of 12-14K with an 8600 gvwr rig with a gcwr of 8500 lbs! that out pulled a 454 with a 16k GCWR When both were at 12K! Not always a biggest engine is the baddest, or lowest axel ratio or equal.........need to look at the WHOLE picture.

marty

The new RAM 3500 SRW that I tested had 18" tires rated to 3750 with a 7K RAWR. So they should be able to handle around 3500 lbs of pin weight. My issue would be that they only offer the 3:42 gears in the SRW models. Cummins12V98 tows his MS with these gears, stating his only issue is getting the load moving from a stop on a steep grade, which happens from time to time. That happen to us on 64 in NM. We pull off the road at over 10,000 foot on an uphill wide stop to look over the valley, and let slow traffic get further ahead of us. I could not get my turbo to spool and blacken the mountain top, with 4:10 gears an CVW of 20K! When around the corner to the top and a sign reading 10,500 feet.

Chris

jus2shy wrote:
I own a 3500 SRW, Crew Cab Short bed 68RFE with the Cummins. My maximum payload is roughly 3,800 lbs according to the sticker. GVWR is 11,700 IIRC. I think you may be at/near the limit of payload if you use the 20% rule. Then you'd have no room for anything but yourself on the truck.

Is that right? I have a Voltage 3600. 19,000# GVWR. 20% of that is 3800#. That is FULLY LOADED wt.

I am about 3300# fully loaded on the pin. One really needs to weigh the combo, as 20% is JUST a rule of thumb, not the bible.

Kind of makes my point about going to 19.5 tires if one is pushing the limit. Tires are the limiting factor on SRW trucks. Do they make the sticker higher? No. But, do they actually increase the ability to carry a marginal load? Yes.

With DRW there are four tires with about 90% of their load capacity in that configuration or about 4x3000 or 12,000 lbs. so the axle is the limiting factor. With the GM/Chevy and Dodge trucks the axles and wheel bearings are rated at 10,900 lbs. so the limiting factor is the load capacity of the two tires at the rear.

Standard truck E range tires provide 3200@80 PSI or 6400 lbs for the two at the rear axle, but there are Nitto and Toyo tires that fit on 16/17/18 inch rims and have 3750@80 PSI rating and provide 7500 lbs. of load capacity at the rear. Figure 3200 lbs. for the heavy duty truck itself and that leaves 4300 lbs. for the weight of the 5th wheel.

Going to 19.5 rims and tires and the per tire load capacity is around 4400@110 PSI and that provides a rear load capacity of 8800 lbs. and minus the truck weight that leaves about 5600 lbs. for the 5th wheel trailer.

I know people towing 13,500 lb. 5th wheels all over with a SRW pickup and no difficulties with the handling or with high rate of tire wear.
They are all using the stock rims and E rated tires, nothing special.
They are all using a TrailAir or comparable kingpin setup to absorb the shock from the trailer and isolate it from the cab of the truck.

In my own travels I have noticed that four-fifths of the hundreds of trucks I have seen pulling 5th wheel travel trailers (not horse or cargo trailers) are SRW trucks.

Yes a DRW will work but is very seldom necessary.

I own a 3500 SRW, Crew Cab Short bed 68RFE with the Cummins. My maximum payload is roughly 3,800 lbs according to the sticker. GVWR is 11,700 IIRC. I think you may be at/near the limit of payload if you use the 20% rule. Then you'd have no room for anything but yourself on the truck.

john&bet wrote:
I will relate a talk I had a few years ago with a fellow who had a Travel Supreme triple axel 5th that they were full timing in. He pulled in next to me and we were talking about his set up. The truck was an MDT and his trailer had a GVW of 18k+ that he had towed with a 3500 dully. The engine performed real well but the rest of the truck was lacking in tires and braking and general comfortable feel. He was much happier after the up grade in truck. Just for your consideration.

"a few years ago"

RAM especially has dramatically upped the strength of the frame and suspension since then. The wt. is well within the limits of a 3500 DRW. Not even pushing the limits.

It is close to the limit of a SRW 3500. If OP insisted on a 3500 SRW, I would suggest he get a RAM 3500 SRW, and swap the tires to 19.5, and add airbags. He may be a little under, or a little over the rating, but will be well within tire limits. DRW would be better.

I pull my Excel with a SRW but mine is 3 feet shorter and lighter. I am within all specs, fully loaded, but not by much. My truck does an excellent job, is very stable and stops very well but I'm not sure I would want to pull anything bigger with it. I really think in that weight range I would want a dually. Excel has an option for upgraded tires and disk brakes which we have and I highly recommend. I think it helps a bunch with the handling and stopping. Ours has load range J Michelins.

We find our 34 to be very roomy and more than adequate for our needs. Not sure you have looked at one or if it would work for you but that would be an option to keep you in the SRW range.

john&bet wrote:
I will relate a talk I had a few years ago with a fellow who had a Travel Supreme triple axel 5th that they were full timing in. He pulled in next to me and we were talking about his set up. The truck was an MDT and his trailer had a GVW of 18k+ that he had towed with a 3500 dully. The engine performed real well but the rest of the truck was lacking in tires and braking and general comfortable feel. He was much happier after the up grade in truck. Just for your consideration.

As you said the talk was a few years ago.

Any of the big 3 diesel dually's will handle the RV in question.

I can tell you my combined weight is 28K with a pin weight of 4,500#. The Ram CC Dually handles the load with ease and is very solid in 40-50 mph side winds.

Look around many owning MDT's are selling them and buying 350/3500's.