New HD Truck - Atlis

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Nope, don't charge extra for 50 amp. In the real world of RV park ownership there actually is negligible difference in the daily cost of having a fully electric RV in a 50 amp site and a pop up camper in a 30 amp site. What the big class A uses in electricity cost, the popup makes up by using the park's showers and restrooms. Heck, on a hot day, the Popup very easily uses more electricity running a rooftop air trying to cool the canvas walled RV than the big 45 footer uses cooling the much better insulated rig.
There is much more to charging EVs in volume than just having a charging station. Real estate has to be dedicated to the charging station(s). Allowances have to be made for what to do with the drivers and passengers as they wait for the vehicle to charge. Even the massive Megachargers being discussed (yet not available, so they are just theory at this point) apparently take 20 minutes plus to completely charge a vehicle. That would mean if three vehicles are in line (common in modern gas stations), the business would have to accommodate the passengers and drivers for 1 hour. A well run RV park would not allow random people to roam the park for an hour, so there would need to be some other solution.
Fueling internal combustion vehicles is not very profitable. That is why most have convenience stores, or less frequently, repair shops attached. There is no reason to assume that fueling EVs would be wildly profitable either. I doubt anyone has not noticed that fuel stations take large amounts of staffing and need to be open long hours (often 24/7) and don't close seasonally. All of those run against my business plans. Other than the fact that both RVs and EVs need to plug in, there really is no overlap between the businesses.

I would never expect you to fast charge an EV. Maybe that is the misunderstanding.

I am just talking about 20 to 40 amps to slow charge an EV-Truck-RV while they stay. If it takes a week to charge then so be it. Worst case put them in a metered site and charge accordingly.

fj12ryder wrote:
I'm sorry that I gave the impression I know of such numbers. I don't, which is why I never made such a comparison. He made the comparison, the burden of proof is on him, not me. I merely don't believe it, and need the numbers to be shown that I'm incorrect.

All it would take would be to compare the current population to the population of the time cited, then figure in the percentage of car ownership, and the number of actual fuel stations, and of course the number of miles driven. Then compare the number of fuel stations to electrical recharge stations, and the percentage of EV's of the current population. Easy peasy. Oh and, of course, the demographics of car ownership at the time cited compared to the demographics of EV's ownership at the present time.

But, BTW, all this has nothing to do with the reality, or unreality, of the truck that this particular thread is reputedly about.

I guess to make YOU "happy" that's what needs to happen. It is obvious that you have the know how to compile that info for yourself. Why should he bother? I'm happy with his statement and looking at the big picture and taking what he said at Face value and not reading into it that much, I'm HAPPY with his "Flawed" comparison. It's more a hyperbole than anything else, you're reading TOO much into it.

Chainwright wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

.

x2.
dang you keep saying the right things. lol
True, even our Supermarkets here in south texas are adding charging stations. Even WAlmart is started installing charging stations. It's the new price of Business. Y'all better get used to it.

That is an excellent job of summing it up. One thing to keep in mind is that Tesla will help with SuperCharger installation in may cases.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/23/17044902/tesla-free-charging-stations-office-parking-lots

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Groover wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

Will the power fairy just sprinkle pixie dust on the services to allow for the increased loads? The concerns aren't about the one guy who tows a Tesla behind his Prevost, it is should EVs become ubiquitous, how the heck are they going to be charged. I agree, if I wanted to allow it, my parks could easily handle charging one electric vehicle overnight. The problem arises when that one vehicle becomes 30 or 40, when it isn't just topping off the battery, it's recharging a couple dozen of these Atlis trucks (this thread) from nearly discharged to full capacity so they can go 500 more miles tomorrow. It isn't about using a 120 volt charger that adds 5 miles of range an hour, it's about how do you supply 480 volt, or even 1000 volt services to each site if the answer to the recharging question is charge at your destination because that is what is going to be needed to recharge the type of vehicles used in RVing. In my opinion, EVs will only capture the major transportation market when and if charging becomes similar to refueling an internal combustion vehicle in both time and convenience.

I don't think that anyone here is expecting you to do it for free. However, I do suspect that you charge extra for sites with 50amp service. I think that it would be prudent of you to expect power demands to increase in the future and to consider that when doing any work on your grid and be prepared to charge appropriately for extra power provided. As for charging vehicles, if I were in your place a I would consider putting in a few EV charge stations near the main office in the future.

Nope, don't charge extra for 50 amp. In the real world of RV park ownership there actually is negligible difference in the daily cost of having a fully electric RV in a 50 amp site and a pop up camper in a 30 amp site. What the big class A uses in electricity cost, the popup makes up by using the park's showers and restrooms. Heck, on a hot day, the Popup very easily uses more electricity running a rooftop air trying to cool the canvas walled RV than the big 45 footer uses cooling the much better insulated rig.
There is much more to charging EVs in volume than just having a charging station. Real estate has to be dedicated to the charging station(s). Allowances have to be made for what to do with the drivers and passengers as they wait for the vehicle to charge. Even the massive Megachargers being discussed (yet not available, so they are just theory at this point) apparently take 20 minutes plus to completely charge a vehicle. That would mean if three vehicles are in line (common in modern gas stations), the business would have to accommodate the passengers and drivers for 1 hour. A well run RV park would not allow random people to roam the park for an hour, so there would need to be some other solution.
Fueling internal combustion vehicles is not very profitable. That is why most have convenience stores, or less frequently, repair shops attached. There is no reason to assume that fueling EVs would be wildly profitable either. I doubt anyone has not noticed that fuel stations take large amounts of staffing and need to be open long hours (often 24/7) and don't close seasonally. All of those run against my business plans. Other than the fact that both RVs and EVs need to plug in, there really is no overlap between the businesses.

Exactly...IT Goes against YOUR business plans. So like REISENDER said: you wouldn't get his business, he would just go to the next HOTEL (CG) that's offers that Service.
IN the grand scheme of things you are a "MOM and POP" shop. I wish you continued success, but you see what the Walmarts (Corporate America) and Company have done to Mom and POP shops. And the RV world has their share of "Walmarts." So it's in your interest to come up with something that keeps you competitive, if not I see you exiting this business in about 10-15 yrs.

westernrvparkowner wrote:
I don't allow the public to use my laundry either.

Sorry I assumed you might have coin operated machines for people that stay at your resort. Many RV parks do and charge handsomely.

ksss wrote:

Chainwright wrote:

ksss wrote:
I don't think anyone is against an EV pickup. The claims of this one are off the chart though. Time will tell, if they can backup their insane claims. I would think that if this technology existed, we would know that by now.

No "We" wouldn't, not unless you're a Popular mechanic subscriber or you do your own digging. I learned a ALOT of "stuff" in Afghanistan, that the Gov't tries to "Shield" Stop looking at the glass half Empty.

It is not a question of looking at the glass half full, it is looking at the concept with logic and not your heart. If you believe that this is viable right now and your willing to bet YOUR money that this of level technology exists and is just being kept secret, I am sure ATLIS would be happy to take your investment money. Especially seeing how they don't appear to even have office space right now to say nothing of manufacturing capability. Like I said, I am interested to see where all this goes, time will tell. Talk and hope is cheap, making it happen is not.

Look, I believe in EV's and the their technology. Are EV's the best thing? probably not, were ICE for that matter I don't think so. But we made/make do with what we have/had.
Folks here are talking like things are expected to change tomorrow, that's not gonna happen. EV's will have to make a HUGE impact in the Sedan and coup, convertible, hatchback industry and then truck and SUV industry before it is even "Considered" (on a larger scale) for the RV industry. I'm not kidding my self, but I'm all for it. IF the Big RV makers Thor, Birkshire and winnebago decide to bring out an EV MH, it won't be for OUR market, it'll be for Europe or Australia (Yes, there are other RV markets besides ours, I know it's a huge surprise but it's true.)
THIS technology of small EVs is no longer a secret, PLS just do some research on the over 60K charging stations they have in europe, "this technology" hasn't caught on here yet, but it is alive and well in Europe. AS of last yr China has 215000 charging stations. Europe has a time line because by 2030 ICE vehicles will no longer be produced, by law.
You're absolutely right, talk is cheap, especially by a bunch of cats with no Expert knowledge or Engineering credentials to their names. We keep talking while the REST of the world is DOING. And, don't look at the glass half full, look at the rest of the world who are leaving us behind because a bunch of Big oil lobbiest want to keep us in the "dark" and basking in Oblivion. True, EV RV's may not come about this yr or next yr, but they will start trickling on the market in the next 8-10 yrs. Naturally we'll have a hybrid RV before we have fully EV Rv's. But as for EV's in general, we better get on the ball, because the rest of the world is leaving us behind.
Toyota tundra could build a beautiful Hybrid truck right now if they wanted to...why do you think they are not, and don't tell me it's lack of technology.

Chainwright wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

.

x2.
dang you keep saying the right things. lol
True, even our Supermarkets here in south texas are adding charging stations. Even WAlmart is started installing charging stations. It's the new price of Business. Y'all better get used to it.

That is an excellent job of summing it up. One thing to keep in mind is that Tesla will help with SuperCharger installation in may cases.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/23/17044902/tesla-free-charging-stations-office-parking-lots

I'm sorry that I gave the impression I know of such numbers. I don't, which is why I never made such a comparison. He made the comparison, the burden of proof is on him, not me. I merely don't believe it, and need the numbers to be shown that I'm incorrect.

All it would take would be to compare the current population to the population of the time cited, then figure in the percentage of car ownership, and the number of actual fuel stations, and of course the number of miles driven. Then compare the number of fuel stations to electrical recharge stations, and the percentage of EV's of the current population. Easy peasy. Oh and, of course, the demographics of car ownership at the time cited compared to the demographics of EV's ownership at the present time.

But, BTW, all this has nothing to do with the reality, or unreality, of the truck that this particular thread is reputedly about.

fj12ryder wrote:

Chainwright wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

NJRVer wrote:
How many gas stations were there in the country in 1920? That's about the equivalent of where EV's are now.

Yeah, but how many cars and people were in the country in 1920? I don't think the comparison works very well.

can you explain WHY his comparison doesn't works very well? (i'm guessing he's talking %, but I could be wrong)

Where does he get his numbers? Whipping some comparisons out of thin air doesn't mean much. Put out the relevant numbers and then I might reconsider. And don't forget, one of the main draws of EV is that they supposedly can be charged anywhere there's electricity.

well, so, with all due respect: show him how to do it. Where are your numbers?

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

.

x2.
dang you keep saying the right things. lol
True, even our Supermarkets here in south texas are adding charging stations. Even WAlmart is started installing charging stations. It's the new price of Business. Y'all better get used to it.