Hi, bit of a saga...I purchased a new, 2011 Lance 830 from Sunridge RV in Airdrie 6 weeks ago. The unit was a little weathered from the time it had spent on the lot but the price was good, so I put a deposit down with the balance due on delivery.When they finally called me in last Wednesday, I had another look up on the roof, it was covered in snow the previous visit. I was surprised to see a large deformation directly to the right of the forward roof vent and pointed it out to the tech, who noted "that doesn't look good" and continued on with re-caulking all the seams that were open.I took a straight edge up and measured a 3/4" depression within a 3' diameter to the right of the vent. I advised the tech that I was refusing delivery of the unit and would be back to talk with the sales manager when he was in. Returning Friday afternoon, the Service Manager informed me that his senior tech had checked it out and found nothing wrong. They inquired with Lance who advised I should park the unit 4" nose up and maintain seals around the roof openings...I walked away from the deal based on non disclosure of a structural defect or damage, the dealer is not returning my deposit. I was not provided Lance's "opinion", only advised that the roof is under warranty and that the dealer would honor it.Here are a couple of pics, I don't agree with the dealer telling me this is nothing to worry about and even if there is a problem, it is under warranty...I am positive one of the roof joists is bent or detached at the vent corner and will be taking the dealer to Court to recover my deposit...Your opinions matter and will likely help in my efforts.Thanks,

not sure about your deposit but the standing water around the roof vent looks like a future leak,good luck on this...

I think you made the right move, I wouldn't trust that either. I may be in the market for a camper and I was going to look there, I'll be real careful about giving a deposit after hearing your story.

Maybe it's time to have your attorney request Lance's opinion?You may have to take legal action to get your deposit.Let us know how you make out with this situation.Did you post it on RV Service Reviews?

I think you did the right thing. I wouldn't want a brand new camper with a potential roof problem right off the lot.I bet they return your deposit the minute you hit them with a formal letter stating your intent to take them to court.On the positive side of this, you have convinced me to go with a Rhino coated roof so I never have these issues.

New Lance, Refused Delivery; Your Opinions Please

43 Replies

Reddog1
Explorer II
May 09, 2013
Prominion wrote:
... I am positive one of the roof joists is bent or detached at the vent corner and will be taking the dealer to Court to recover my deposit...Your opinions matter and will likely help in my efforts.

Thanks,

Rules & Policies state clearly:

"Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits."

I hesitate to delete the Thread, but it may be after further review.

This thread is closed.

Wayne
Moderator
wnjj
Explorer II
May 09, 2013
silversand wrote:
"I walked away from the deal based on non disclosure of a structural defect or damage, the dealer is not returning my deposit."

....this is Canada. No one can simply "keep" a deposit if a buyer decides to back out of a purchase for any reason whatsoever. If you, for example, went to buy a new or used car, an aircraft, boat, refrigerator, insurance, ANYTHING, and gave a deposit for later delivery in this country (Provincial laws vary, but they are essentially the same cross-country in principle/intent), and you decide to back out of the deal FOR ANY REASON, you deposit MUST be given back IMMEDIATELY. Even signing a contract, you have a cooling off period where you can back out of the deal NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON. No lawyer needed.

Forensics on "the roof depression":

Sabconsulting nailed it: this depression likely existed for many seasons (or, years) based on his evaluation of the concentric evaporation stains.

If the deposit must be returned for any reason, what exactly is the point it putting one down? Isn't the whole point for the buyer to have a financial incentive to continue the deal? Now obviously if there are quality issues the "deal" should no longer apply.
sue_t
Explorer
May 09, 2013
While searching for a used RV we checked many thoroughly. It wasn't uncommon to see roof leaks that had softened the roof AND the wall area at the floor.

The water that comes in the roof needs to go somewhere ... usually down. Once down, it pools at the floor structure and starts rotting that area too. One was so bad the wall was rotted about half-way up ... my thumb indented the wall when I pressed into it! The floor under the dinette seat was rotten/soft. Wouldn't have noticed it if we hadn't been overly curious about the discolored vinyl flooring.
bjbear
Explorer
May 09, 2013
silversand wrote:

....this is Canada. No one can simply "keep" a deposit if a buyer decides to back out of a purchase for any reason whatsoever. If you, for example, went to buy a new or used car, an aircraft, boat, refrigerator, insurance, ANYTHING, and gave a deposit for later delivery in this country (Provincial laws vary, but they are essentially the same cross-country in principle/intent), and you decide to back out of the deal FOR ANY REASON, you deposit MUST be given back IMMEDIATELY. Even signing a contract, you have a cooling off period where you can back out of the deal NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON. No lawyer needed.

Unfortunately, there is no cooling off period in Alberta for vehicle purchases. It only applies to direct sales (i.e. vacuum cleaners from a door to door salesman).

silversand wrote:

Forensics on "the roof depression":

Sabconsulting nailed it: this depression likely existed for many seasons (or, years) based on his evaluation of the concentric evaporation stains.

Sounds like you know something about the construction techniques. Maybe the OP can use this info when putting together a legal challenge to get his deposit back.
bjbear
Explorer
May 09, 2013
Son of Norway wrote:
Being a lawyer myself I am always a little skeptical when I read posts on these forums advising people to "get a lawyer" or "take them to court." Often those options are not very realistic. Lawyers are expensive and may not be the best use of your money. Going to court is expensive, the dealer will have a lawyer and you may just wind up getting a nasty and expensive lesson in contract law.

I think the best way to handle this kind of situation is with tact and negotiation. You're bargaining position is somewhat weak. The dealer already has your money. Some options: Ask to see the report from Lance. See if a rep from Lance is willing to look at the problem with you. See if the dealer will agree to an independent inspection to determine if there is a real structural problem and how it can be remedied. See if there is another trailer on the lot that you might want to buy from the dealer. See if the dealer will accept a small monetary settlement to keep their reputation and make the problem go away.

Try one of these approaches and see if you have any luck. Post again to this thread with what happens and we can see where to take it from there. Good luck and I hope that the situation is resolved happily for you.

Miles

Here in Alberta, we have small claims court. It is relative easy to do and you really do not need a lawyer. You can claim up to $25K. The secret is to have good documentation and write up a clear and concise claim. I suspect that the original poster will get his deposit back as soon as the dealer receives a notice to appear. The dealer will know that he has very little chance of winning as it is clear from the pictures that there is structural/water damage.

Read about it here
Butch50
Explorer
May 09, 2013
monkey44 wrote:
Quote: "I can't believe this dealer wasn't aware this camper had water pooling on its roof. I bet they were really happy to move this on when someone came to look at it when the roof was covered in snow and couldn't be seen"

I'm not so sure the dealer knew it, why would he? I'm betting dealers take delivery and never climb on the roof. No reason to do anything (pay some one time to inspect every unit) until it's sold.

Doesn't excuse him refusing to fix it or refusing to return deposit, but it was probably a surprise to dealer too.

How many here believe he would have seen it?

When I worked part time at an RV dealer after retirement when a new unit came in it was inspected for any damage prior to accepting delivery and this included the roof as the shipper could have damaged it during delivery. If the shipper damaged it had to be noted at that time not 6 or more months later. There were a couple of them that they made the shipper haul back as it was damaged and the dealer did not want to take responsibility or headache to try to repair it.

Shipper also had to wash the unit before the dealership accepted the unit. This made it eaiser to see any damage.
silversand
Explorer
May 09, 2013
"I walked away from the deal based on non disclosure of a structural defect or damage, the dealer is not returning my deposit."

....this is Canada. No one can simply "keep" a deposit if a buyer decides to back out of a purchase for any reason whatsoever. If you, for example, went to buy a new or used car, an aircraft, boat, refrigerator, insurance, ANYTHING, and gave a deposit for later delivery in this country (Provincial laws vary, but they are essentially the same cross-country in principle/intent), and you decide to back out of the deal FOR ANY REASON, you deposit MUST be given back IMMEDIATELY. Even signing a contract, you have a cooling off period where you can back out of the deal NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON. No lawyer needed.

Forensics on "the roof depression":

Sabconsulting nailed it: this depression likely existed for many seasons (or, years) based on his evaluation of the concentric evaporation stains.
monkey44
Nomad II
May 09, 2013
Quote: "I can't believe this dealer wasn't aware this camper had water pooling on its roof. I bet they were really happy to move this on when someone came to look at it when the roof was covered in snow and couldn't be seen"

I'm not so sure the dealer knew it, why would he? I'm betting dealers take delivery and never climb on the roof. No reason to do anything (pay some one time to inspect every unit) until it's sold.

Doesn't excuse him refusing to fix it or refusing to return deposit, but it was probably a surprise to dealer too.

How many here believe he would have seen it?
ecoast
Explorer
May 09, 2013
does the contract allow for acceptance contingent upon inspection @ PDI/delivery?

Did you use a CC to deposit? If so, call CC co. and dispute...
sabconsulting
Explorer
May 09, 2013
This doesn't look like something recent to me. I notice the concentric rings of staining where water has built up, then evaporated, then built up again. This puddle of water could have been there since 2011 - i.e. that part of the roof could have been almost continuously wet since then. Also, the brown staining implies that dirt had built up on that roof, so even in dry weather that build-up of mud would still keep the roof underneath wet.

Plus that open caulking looks awful (or rather the visible gaps in it). My caulking looked similar, but my camper has spent over 20 years in a wet climate. In the case of my camper water got in through the caulking and ruined the timber components of the roof below causing be to have to replace much of the roof timber. Is that new white caulk they have applied directly to the mud?

I can't believe this dealer wasn't aware this camper had water pooling on its roof. I bet they were really happy to move this on when someone came to look at it when the roof was covered in snow and couldn't be seen.

Steve.