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FFMDX's avatar
FFMDX
Explorer
Jun 14, 2017

Newbie Comparison question

Hello,

Newbie here, not only too the forum but to TT's as well. We have narrowed down our search (half the battle) and are considering two different brands. I've researched the snot out of both BUT I am still coming up short based on user/owner opinions, reliability, where the trailer sits on the hierarchy of the styles...fit and finish, pros/cons...

The two we are really considering are:

2014 Forest River Wildcat Maxx 26BHS with slide
2015 Dutchmen Kodiak Express Ultra Lite 25BHS with slide

My TV is an '02 F250 PSD so weight isn't too big of an issue.

TIA

Sean

11 Replies

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  • FFMDX's avatar
    FFMDX
    Explorer
    Jun 26, 2017
    Great info, thanks guys! We've been going to shows and dealers in our area (about a 100 mi radius) and every one of them said that their trailers were all TPO and not rubber. Trailers with fiberglass or metal roofs were either out of our budget or pretty old and trashed. We finally made our decision and ended up going with the Grand Design Imagine 2800BH. It has a walk-on TPO roof with a 12 yr warranty......should be picking it up in a day or so.

    Sean
  • Bumpyroad's avatar
    Bumpyroad
    Explorer
    Jun 26, 2017
    falconbrother wrote:
    FFMDX wrote:
    Bumpyroad wrote:
    what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
    bumpy


    The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?


    TPO wicks water. If it gets a small leak and you dont find it for a while, which is likely, water will really spread bad with TPO. Also, you cannot use most of the products in the RV stores to fix it. But, you can use cheaper products from Lowes on TPO. TPO is pretty rare these days. I don't think it's been used in a while. These days it seems to be EPDM and plain old rubber. Our 2017 Coleman 262BH has a "rubber" roof, not EPDM. EPDM products can be used on it but it's not EPDM. How to know the difference: Pull a vent liner on the inside and see where the manufacturer folded the rubber in. If it's white on top and black on the bottom it's EPDM. If it's a newer unit and the rubber is all the same color it's just plain old rubber. In my experience TPO has like a fabric on the backside and it's textured on the top. These days I would tend to want to avoid TPO. I had it on my old class A motorhome and it was a pain. Our first travel trailer was a Prowler that had a metal roof. That was the best roof ever. Easy to fix and stayed dry. Maintain it and it will last a lifetime. Of course it's heavy. That little trailer weighed a lot for it's size. Rubber has a 10 year life expectancy. That means they need major coating in under a decade. But, rubber/EPDM is pretty easy to work with and the products are easy to find.


    I think you are confusing some issues. years back KZ and others? used a felt backed Tpo roofing material that did if cut could adsorb moisture. but in normal discussion Rubber is the same as Epdm.
    bumpy
  • falconbrother's avatar
    falconbrother
    Explorer II
    Jun 26, 2017
    FFMDX wrote:
    Bumpyroad wrote:
    what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
    bumpy


    The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?


    TPO wicks water. If it gets a small leak and you dont find it for a while, which is likely, water will really spread bad with TPO. Also, you cannot use most of the products in the RV stores to fix it. But, you can use cheaper products from Lowes on TPO. TPO is pretty rare these days. I don't think it's been used in a while. These days it seems to be EPDM and plain old rubber. Our 2017 Coleman 262BH has a "rubber" roof, not EPDM. EPDM products can be used on it but it's not EPDM. How to know the difference: Pull a vent liner on the inside and see where the manufacturer folded the rubber in. If it's white on top and black on the bottom it's EPDM. If it's a newer unit and the rubber is all the same color it's just plain old rubber. In my experience TPO has like a fabric on the backside and it's textured on the top. These days I would tend to want to avoid TPO. I had it on my old class A motorhome and it was a pain. Our first travel trailer was a Prowler that had a metal roof. That was the best roof ever. Easy to fix and stayed dry. Maintain it and it will last a lifetime. Of course it's heavy. That little trailer weighed a lot for it's size. Rubber has a 10 year life expectancy. That means they need major coating in under a decade. But, rubber/EPDM is pretty easy to work with and the products are easy to find.
  • Navyskcs's avatar
    Navyskcs
    Explorer
    Jun 25, 2017
    I would not buy a Keystone. I have had more problems with mine, first the inside trim started falling off, then fenders, shower door hardware broke and had to put a stick in the jam to keep closed when traveling and the last a month before warranty ran out during a huge thunderstorm found that our slide out had a dip in it and I had a waterfall inside. After many months of arguing they finally approved the rebuild of my slide. Also it seems that I wasn't the only one with slide problems. Just my recommendation.
  • Bumpyroad's avatar
    Bumpyroad
    Explorer
    Jun 16, 2017
    FFMDX wrote:
    Bumpyroad wrote:
    what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
    bumpy


    The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?


    do a search
    bumpy
  • FFMDX's avatar
    FFMDX
    Explorer
    Jun 16, 2017
    Bumpyroad wrote:
    what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
    bumpy


    The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?
  • FFMDX's avatar
    FFMDX
    Explorer
    Jun 15, 2017
    Wow,

    Thanks for all the replies...I forgot to mention that we are looking for a bunkhouse as well. The Winnies are amazing but a little out of our $$ range and I couldn't find a BH Remmington. We just got back from a show and now are really considering going new......Bullet, Imagine, Aero....

    The GD Imagine by far has the best warranty out there. Everything so far has had the TPO roof, not rubber. We are super saturated with all the options!......I guess we either have to Sh*t or get off the pot!

    Any pros/cons with GD, Keystone?



    EDIT: Soooo....I think we are leaning toward the Grand Design Imagine 2800BHS. the dealer will "negotiate" a little and has a 3 yr warranty. Anyone have experience with GD? I saw that they are a young company that was just recently bought by Winnebago...Good, Bad, Indifferent??

    TIA

    Sean
  • Bumpyroad's avatar
    Bumpyroad
    Explorer
    Jun 14, 2017
    what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
    bumpy
  • normal_dave's avatar
    normal_dave
    Explorer
    Jun 14, 2017
    I can't answer specifically for those two brands, but I can certainly muddy the water a little. Folks looking for used travel trailers really seem to like the old Sunnybrook line, especially the Harmony models. All aluminum superstructure, Gel coat fiberglass exterior, quality cabinets, etc. (now owned by Winnebago).

    Here is an example in Fresno, It is still labeled Sunnybrook, but it may have been made right around the time Winnebago took over. The Remington name is not as well known, but I believe these to be a very well built value for the dollar, and if cost were similar, I'd get the Sunnybrook/Remington long before either of the other two manufacturers and never look back.

    FWIW, the Sunnybrook trailer designs live on in the Minnie and Minnie Plus at Winnebago and seem to have a good following.

    Check it out before you make your decision:
    2013 Remington Ultra-Lite 2500 FBS

    Remington 2013 brochure

    Edit: I just saw what your two preferred models are going for in Cali, and that they still have new ones in inventory? If your budget allows, check this one out. Why?, the Ultralite is being phased out in favor of the Minnie Plus. This particular one has everything upgraded already to meet/exceed what comes on a new Minnie Plus. It also has the boring old clay color (which I actually like better). Maybe there is a deal to be had here? Check out the options and compare.
    2017 27BHSS Winnebago Ultralite

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Newbie here, not only too the forum but to TT's as well. We have narrowed down our search (half the battle) and are considering two different brands. I've researched the snot out of both BUT I am still coming up short based on user/owner opinions, reliability, where the trailer sits on the hierarchy of the styles...fit and finish, pros/cons...

The two we are really considering are:

2014 Forest River Wildcat Maxx 26BHS with slide
2015 Dutchmen Kodiak Express Ultra Lite 25BHS with slide

My TV is an '02 F250 PSD so weight isn't too big of an issue.

TIA

Sean","body@stringLength":"646","rawBody":"Hello,

Newbie here, not only too the forum but to TT's as well. We have narrowed down our search (half the battle) and are considering two different brands. I've researched the snot out of both BUT I am still coming up short based on user/owner opinions, reliability, where the trailer sits on the hierarchy of the styles...fit and finish, pros/cons...

The two we are really considering are:

2014 Forest River Wildcat Maxx 26BHS with slide
2015 Dutchmen Kodiak Express Ultra Lite 25BHS with slide

My TV is an '02 F250 PSD so weight isn't too big of an issue.

TIA

Sean","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2017-06-14T12:51:32.000-07:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"tags":{"__typename":"TagConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:2659899_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":4047},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","canonicalUrl":null,"seoTitle":null,"seoDescription":null,"isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"archivalData":null,"searchSnippet":"Hello, Newbie here, not only too the forum but to TT's as well. 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{\n /* faking it; should be 33.33333333% */\n width: 25%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-8 {\n /* faking it; should be 66.66666667% */\n width: 75%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-10 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-12 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n\n.pull-left {\n float: left;\n width: 100%;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n float: none;\n width: auto;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n}\n\n.pad-bottom-20 {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n}\n\n.pad-top-20 {\n padding-top: $theme-space-base;\n}\n\n.pad-top-30 {\n padding-top: calc($bootstrap-padding * 2);\n}\n\n.pad-top-40 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: $theme-space-large;\n }\n}\n\n.margin-left-20 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: $theme-space-base;\n }\n}\n\n.margin-top-20 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-top: $theme-space-base;\n }\n}\n\n.text-center {\n text-align: center;\n}\n\n.text-right {\n text-align: right;\n}\n\n.text-smaller,\n.text-small {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n}\n\n.text-large {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xlarge;\n}\n\n.footer-contact {\n p {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n .text-small {\n @media screen and (max-width: 991px) {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-base;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .icon-gs-app {\n margin-right: $theme-space-base;\n max-width: 38px;\n padding-right: 2px;\n padding-top: 2px;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 140px;\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n .gsi-icon-phone {\n margin-bottom: -2px;\n margin-right: $theme-space-small;\n max-height: 20px;\n width: 20px;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-link {\n a,\n button {\n color: $goodsam-gray-footer;\n padding: 0 12px 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n li:last-child a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n}\n\n.footer-top-links {\n padding-left: 0;\n list-style: none;\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n font-size: 16px;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 480px) {\n flex-direction: column;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n padding: 0 $theme-space-base;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-top {\n border-bottom: 2px solid $goodsam-gray-400;\n display: block;\n margin: auto;\n padding-top: $theme-space-small;\n text-align: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n text-align: left;\n }\n\n .footer-logo {\n max-height: 60px;\n max-width: 140px;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n padding-left: 0;\n padding-top: 0;\n }\n\n .footer-list {\n display: flex;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n list-style: none;\n margin-bottom: 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n float: right;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline-block;\n padding: $theme-space-small $theme-space-xsmall;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid $goodsam-gray-700;\n float: left;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n a,\n button {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n text-transform: uppercase;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 768px) {\n display: block;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n }\n }\n\n .dropup {\n background-clip: padding-box;\n border: none;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n list-style: none;\n padding-left: 5px;\n position: relative;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n\n &:hover {\n .dropdown-menu {\n display: block;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .footer-dropup-toggle {\n background: none;\n border: 0;\n padding: 0;\n\n .fa-angle-up {\n /* @include li-icon ($fa-var-angle-up, $pseudo: before, $size: $theme-type-size-base, $color: $goodsam-gray-footer);\n padding-left: $theme-space-xsmall;\n padding-right: $theme-space-xsmall; */\n }\n }\n\n .dropdown-menu {\n background-color: #fff;\n border-radius: 4px;\n bottom: 100%;\n margin: 2px 0 0;\n min-width: 160px;\n padding: $theme-space-xsmall 0;\n position: absolute;\n right: 0;\n\n li {\n border-right: 0;\n float: none;\n text-align: left;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 768px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n a {\n color: $goodsam-gray;\n display: block;\n text-transform: none;\n\n &:hover {\n outline: 5px auto -webkit-focus-ring-color;\n outline-offset: -2px;\n }\n }\n }\n }\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-terms {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: column;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n padding: $theme-space-small 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n padding: 0;\n }\n\n > .row {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n }\n\n &.footer-terms-order-1 {\n order: 1;\n }\n\n &.footer-terms-order-2 {\n order: 2;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-bottom {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n .footer-bottom-list-center {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n float: none;\n margin: 0 auto;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n padding: 0 $theme-space-base;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid $goodsam-gray-700;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:first-child a {\n padding-left: 0;\n }\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n\n a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n }\n }\n\n a {\n display: inline-block;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: inline;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n padding: 0 12px 0 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Assistance","custom.footer.row02.url.06":"https://www.goodsam.com/helping-hand","custom.footer.social.facebook.text":"Facebook","custom.footer.social.facebook.url":"https://www.facebook.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.twitter.text":"Twitter","custom.footer.social.twitter.url":"https://twitter.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.youtube.text":"YouTube","custom.footer.social.youtube.url":"https://www.youtube.com/user/goodsamrvers","custom.footer.social.instagram.text":"Instagram","custom.footer.social.instagram.url":"https://www.instagram.com/goodsam/?hl=en","custom.footer.social.pinterest.text":"Pinterest","custom.footer.social.pinterest.url":"https://www.pinterest.com/goodsam/","custom-community-footer-copyright.text":"© {0} Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All rights reserved."},"defaults":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"components":[{"id":"custom.widget.CustomFooter","form":null,"config":null,"props":[],"__typename":"Component"}],"grouping":"CUSTOM","__typename":"ComponentTemplate"},"properties":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"form":null,"__typename":"Component","localOverride":false},"globalCss":{"css":".custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-wrapper_hp49n_21 {\n background: #474442;\n\n a {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n font-weight: 100;\n\n &:focus,\n &:hover {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n }\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_sr-only_hp49n_34 {\n position: absolute;\n width: 0.0625rem;\n height: 0.0625rem;\n margin: -0.0625rem;\n padding: 0;\n overflow: hidden;\n clip: rect(0, 0, 0, 0);\n border: 0;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer_hp49n_21 {\n line-height: 1.25rem;\n /* margin-left: auto;\n\tmargin-right: auto;\n\tpadding-left: $bootstrap-padding;\n\tpadding-right: $bootstrap-padding; */\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_container_hp49n_52 {\n margin-left: auto;\n margin-right: auto;\n max-width: 73.125rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_row_hp49n_60 {\n /* HOTFIX - PSDS-32115 - Remove negative margins to fix mobile display */\n\n &::after {\n clear: both;\n }\n\n &::after,\n &::before {\n content: ' ';\n display: table;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col_hp49n_74 {\n float: left;\n min-height: 0.0625rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n position: relative;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-10_hp49n_82,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-10_hp49n_83 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-12_hp49n_87,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-4_hp49n_88,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-12_hp49n_89,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-2_hp49n_90,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-8_hp49n_91,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-10_hp49n_92,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-12_hp49n_93,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-2_hp49n_94,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-8_hp49n_95,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-12_hp49n_96 {\n width: 100%;\n}\n@media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-2_hp49n_90 {\n width: 16.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-8_hp49n_91 {\n width: 66.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-10_hp49n_92 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-12_hp49n_93 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n@media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-2_hp49n_94 {\n width: 16.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-4_hp49n_123 {\n /* faking it; should be 33.33333333% */\n width: 25%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-8_hp49n_95 {\n /* faking it; should be 66.66666667% */\n width: 75%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-10_hp49n_133 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-12_hp49n_96 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pull-left_hp49n_142 {\n float: left;\n width: 100%;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n float: none;\n width: auto;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-bottom-20_hp49n_156 {\n padding-bottom: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-20_hp49n_160 {\n padding-top: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-30_hp49n_164 {\n padding-top: calc(0.9375rem * 2);\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-40_hp49n_168 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: 2.5rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_margin-left-20_hp49n_174 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 1.25rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_margin-top-20_hp49n_180 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-top: 1.25rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-center_hp49n_186 {\n text-align: center;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-right_hp49n_190 {\n text-align: right;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-smaller_hp49n_194,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-small_hp49n_194 {\n font-size: 0.75rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-large_hp49n_199 {\n font-size: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-contact_hp49n_203 {\n p {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-small_hp49n_194 {\n @media screen and (max-width: 991px) {\n font-size: 1rem;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_icon-gs-app_hp49n_221 {\n margin-right: 1.25rem;\n max-width: 2.375rem;\n padding-right: 0.125rem;\n padding-top: 0.125rem;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 8.75rem;\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_gsi-icon-phone_hp49n_233 {\n margin-bottom: -0.125rem;\n margin-right: 0.625rem;\n max-height: 1.25rem;\n width: 1.25rem;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-link_hp49n_245 {\n a,\n button {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n padding: 0 0.75rem 0 0.625rem;\n }\n\n li:last-child a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-top-links_hp49n_257 {\n padding-left: 0;\n list-style: none;\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n margin-bottom: 0.625rem;\n font-size: 1rem;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 480px) {\n flex-direction: column;\n }\n\n @media screen and 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Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659910"},"body":"Never mind, I see you bought one... Enjoy!","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"43","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-26T09:25:55.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-26T09:25:55.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659910","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659909":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659909","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659909":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:22658"},"id":"message:2659909","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659909,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659909"},"body":"Great info, thanks guys! We've been going to shows and dealers in our area (about a 100 mi radius) and every one of them said that their trailers were all TPO and not rubber. Trailers with fiberglass or metal roofs were either out of our budget or pretty old and trashed. We finally made our decision and ended up going with the Grand Design Imagine 2800BH. It has a walk-on TPO roof with a 12 yr warranty......should be picking it up in a day or so.

Sean","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-26T08:56:36.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-26T08:56:36.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659909","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:372879":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:372879","uid":372879,"login":"Bumpyroad","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-12-01T02:32:30.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-5.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:372879"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659908":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659908","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659908":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:372879"},"id":"message:2659908","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659908,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659908"},"body":"
falconbrother wrote:
FFMDX wrote:
Bumpyroad wrote:
what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
bumpy


The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?


TPO wicks water. If it gets a small leak and you dont find it for a while, which is likely, water will really spread bad with TPO. Also, you cannot use most of the products in the RV stores to fix it. But, you can use cheaper products from Lowes on TPO. TPO is pretty rare these days. I don't think it's been used in a while. These days it seems to be EPDM and plain old rubber. Our 2017 Coleman 262BH has a \"rubber\" roof, not EPDM. EPDM products can be used on it but it's not EPDM. How to know the difference: Pull a vent liner on the inside and see where the manufacturer folded the rubber in. If it's white on top and black on the bottom it's EPDM. If it's a newer unit and the rubber is all the same color it's just plain old rubber. In my experience TPO has like a fabric on the backside and it's textured on the top. These days I would tend to want to avoid TPO. I had it on my old class A motorhome and it was a pain. Our first travel trailer was a Prowler that had a metal roof. That was the best roof ever. Easy to fix and stayed dry. Maintain it and it will last a lifetime. Of course it's heavy. That little trailer weighed a lot for it's size. Rubber has a 10 year life expectancy. That means they need major coating in under a decade. But, rubber/EPDM is pretty easy to work with and the products are easy to find.


I think you are confusing some issues. years back KZ and others? used a felt backed Tpo roofing material that did if cut could adsorb moisture. but in normal discussion Rubber is the same as Epdm.
bumpy","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-26T03:52:19.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-26T03:52:19.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659908","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:1402":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:1402","uid":1402,"login":"falconbrother","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2004-05-17T19:56:44.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-2.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:41"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:1402"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659907":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659907","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659907":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:1402"},"id":"message:2659907","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659907,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659907"},"body":"
FFMDX wrote:
Bumpyroad wrote:
what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
bumpy


The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?


TPO wicks water. If it gets a small leak and you dont find it for a while, which is likely, water will really spread bad with TPO. Also, you cannot use most of the products in the RV stores to fix it. But, you can use cheaper products from Lowes on TPO. TPO is pretty rare these days. I don't think it's been used in a while. These days it seems to be EPDM and plain old rubber. Our 2017 Coleman 262BH has a \"rubber\" roof, not EPDM. EPDM products can be used on it but it's not EPDM. How to know the difference: Pull a vent liner on the inside and see where the manufacturer folded the rubber in. If it's white on top and black on the bottom it's EPDM. If it's a newer unit and the rubber is all the same color it's just plain old rubber. In my experience TPO has like a fabric on the backside and it's textured on the top. These days I would tend to want to avoid TPO. I had it on my old class A motorhome and it was a pain. Our first travel trailer was a Prowler that had a metal roof. That was the best roof ever. Easy to fix and stayed dry. Maintain it and it will last a lifetime. Of course it's heavy. That little trailer weighed a lot for it's size. Rubber has a 10 year life expectancy. That means they need major coating in under a decade. But, rubber/EPDM is pretty easy to work with and the products are easy to find.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-25T18:11:34.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-25T18:11:34.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659907","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:148346":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:148346","uid":148346,"login":"Navyskcs","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2007-10-24T20:26:51.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-9.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:148346"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659906":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659906","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659906":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:148346"},"id":"message:2659906","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659906,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659906"},"body":"I would not buy a Keystone. I have had more problems with mine, first the inside trim started falling off, then fenders, shower door hardware broke and had to put a stick in the jam to keep closed when traveling and the last a month before warranty ran out during a huge thunderstorm found that our slide out had a dip in it and I had a waterfall inside. After many months of arguing they finally approved the rebuild of my slide. Also it seems that I wasn't the only one with slide problems. Just my recommendation.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-25T11:21:55.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-25T11:21:55.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659906","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659905":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659905","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659905":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:372879"},"id":"message:2659905","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659905,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659905"},"body":"
FFMDX wrote:
Bumpyroad wrote:
what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
bumpy


The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?


do a search
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Bumpyroad wrote:
what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
bumpy


The Wildcat Max is rubber.....why is rubber worse than TPO if it remains sealed?","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"166","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-15T23:19:10.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-15T23:19:10.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659904","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659903":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659903","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659903":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:22658"},"id":"message:2659903","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659903,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659903"},"body":"Wow,

Thanks for all the replies...I forgot to mention that we are looking for a bunkhouse as well. The Winnies are amazing but a little out of our $$ range and I couldn't find a BH Remmington. We just got back from a show and now are really considering going new......Bullet, Imagine, Aero....

The GD Imagine by far has the best warranty out there. Everything so far has had the TPO roof, not rubber. We are super saturated with all the options!......I guess we either have to Sh*t or get off the pot!

Any pros/cons with GD, Keystone?



EDIT: Soooo....I think we are leaning toward the Grand Design Imagine 2800BHS. the dealer will \"negotiate\" a little and has a 3 yr warranty. Anyone have experience with GD? I saw that they are a young company that was just recently bought by Winnebago...Good, Bad, Indifferent??

TIA

Sean","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-15T14:44:11.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-15T14:44:11.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659903","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659902":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659902","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659902":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:372879"},"id":"message:2659902","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659902,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659902"},"body":"what is the roof made of? if rubber, buy the other one.
bumpy","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"62","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2017-06-14T14:51:20.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2017-06-14T14:51:20.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":476},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:TravelTrailer/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:TravelTrailerforum-board/message:2659899/message:2659902","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:48515":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:48515","uid":48515,"login":"normal_dave","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2011-01-06T06:22:56.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-11.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:48515"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659901":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2659901","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2659901":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:48515"},"id":"message:2659901","revisionNum":1,"uid":2659901,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2659899"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2659899"},"subject":"Re: Newbie Comparison question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2659901"},"body":"I can't answer specifically for those two brands, but I can certainly muddy the water a little. Folks looking for used travel trailers really seem to like the old Sunnybrook line, especially the Harmony models. All aluminum superstructure, Gel coat fiberglass exterior, quality cabinets, etc. (now owned by Winnebago).

Here is an example in Fresno, It is still labeled Sunnybrook, but it may have been made right around the time Winnebago took over. The Remington name is not as well known, but I believe these to be a very well built value for the dollar, and if cost were similar, I'd get the Sunnybrook/Remington long before either of the other two manufacturers and never look back.

FWIW, the Sunnybrook trailer designs live on in the Minnie and Minnie Plus at Winnebago and seem to have a good following.

Check it out before you make your decision:
2013 Remington Ultra-Lite 2500 FBS

Remington 2013 brochure

Edit: I just saw what your two preferred models are going for in Cali, and that they still have new ones in inventory? If your budget allows, check this one out. Why?, the Ultralite is being phased out in favor of the Minnie Plus. This particular one has everything upgraded already to meet/exceed what comes on a new Minnie Plus. It also has the boring old clay color (which I actually like better). Maybe there is a deal to be had here? Check out the options and compare.
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