I recently purchased a gas 2019 F250 RWD to tow my 2018 Jayco 24.5 ckts fifth wheel. I am a newbie with heavy-duty trucks. And I have a question about steering with the fifth wheel hooked up. The two-wheel-drive version was the best choice for us because it is 3 inches shorter than the 4x4 F250 and fits under the fiver. And we aren't going anywhere we will need 4x4. The 4x4 would have been too tall and we didn't want to have to raise the trailer any further as the axles were already flipped. We just took it out for its first camping trip and it towed it like the trailer wasn't there. The trailer, loaded, has a pin weight of approximately 1,600 pounds and the truck squatted about 2 inches with the trailer on it. This is a small fifth wheel and well within the trucks specs with its payload rating, per door sticker, of 3,759 lbs and a rear GAWR of 6,340 lbs. I did notice though that the steering felt a little lighter with a tiny bit more play with the trailer on the pin versus the truck driving by itself. It didn't feel out of control or anything just a bit different.Is that normal and to be expected? I am reluctant to add airbags to address the 2 inches of squat as that would put the trailer too nose high and be bad for the trailer axles. Are there any workarounds to shift some more weight onto the front axle or is the bit of extra play in the wheel nothing to be concerned about? Again, it was steering fine it just felt slightly different loaded than unloaded. Thanks!

A 5th wheel normally will have almost no effect on the steering. The pin sits directly over the axle (or within a couple inches), therefore there is no leverage to lift the front axle.2" of squat will well within normal tolerance when loaded.If you are really concerned, take it into a shop and make sure the suspension looks in good shape...otherwise, it likely just feels a little different from what you are used to.

valhalla360 wrote: The pin sits directly over the axle (or within a couple inches), therefore there is no leverage to lift the front axle.He should check the location on his rig, perhaps the pin does ride farther rear than most.

First thing to check is tire air pressure. My 250 tire sticker on door jam states 75 front 80 rear. Mine steers best, when towing, at this psi. When tires/truck was new, it steered best at this pressure, even when not towing. After getting some miles on tires (maybe 5K) the steering noticeably improved. I still air to 75F 80R when towing, but lower rear to 70 psi when not towing. I should mention, my truck has HD service suspension (similar to 350).You are removing very little weight from the front axle with that pin wt. Not sure how many miles on your new truck, but I'd give it a little time.Jerry

bikendan wrote:or they're over payload.Unlikely from the description.Even if the pin weight is double what the sticker suggests, he is still unlikely to be over payload.

Newbie towing question | Good Sam Community

Nighduckman
Explorer
Oct 29, 2019
mkirsch wrote:
2" of squat is perfectly fine. You don't want the suspension so stiff that it does not move, or you will beat everything to pieces, including yourself, going down the road.

LOCATION OF THE PIN is the elephant in the room here. That pin hanging down from the hitch of the 5th wheel trailer. Its relationship to the rear axle (i.e. ahead of, directly over, or slightly behind) determines whether you add weight, don't affect the weight, or remove weight from the front wheels.

Hitch the truck and trailer, pull them straight. Where does the pin sit with regards to the rear axle?

Do you have a slider hitch? Are you leaving it in the rear position all the time?

Thanks! To answer your question, when hitched up the pin on my fiver sitting on the hitch is directly above the rear axle.
mkirsch
Nomad II
Oct 29, 2019
2" of squat is perfectly fine. You don't want the suspension so stiff that it does not move, or you will beat everything to pieces, including yourself, going down the road.

LOCATION OF THE PIN is the elephant in the room here. That pin hanging down from the hitch of the 5th wheel trailer. Its relationship to the rear axle (i.e. ahead of, directly over, or slightly behind) determines whether you add weight, don't affect the weight, or remove weight from the front wheels.

Hitch the truck and trailer, pull them straight. Where does the pin sit with regards to the rear axle?

Do you have a slider hitch? Are you leaving it in the rear position all the time?
Bedlam
Moderator
Oct 29, 2019
Nighduckman wrote:
librty02 wrote:
You have 3800lbs of payload capacity. I would think you don't need helper springs as you have more capacity than most 1 ton SRW diesels do.That camper you talk of what type are you talking about most here consider a 5th or TT or pop up to be a camper

Answer: I was talking about a truck-bed-mounted camper. Once my wife and I are ready to downsize from our fifth wheel, we have been thinking about getting a truck camper which is one of the reasons we went w/ the 2WD F250 to get some extra payload capacity. At 3,759 lbs of available payload, a rear GAWR of 6,340 lbs and a 10,000 lbs GVWR there appear to be a few of the lighter truck campers that would work though not with all the comforts of a fiver for sure.

You will find some hard wall truck campers under 9' long without slides that may keep you under tire and rim limits. My Arctic Fox 811 (9' with slide) was about 4000 lbs once filled and loaded requiring me to make some upgrades to safely roll at 11,500 lbs GVW. My short bed extended cab truck weighed 7250 lbs when outfitted with the diesel and 4WD and I was applying 7000 lbs to the rear axle with the camper loaded.

Your limiting factor for carrying a truck camper are your rear wheels and suspension - The 10.5" rear axle is rated for 9750 lbs from Visteon Sterling. Although on paper it looks like you gain payload by going with a lighter engine, the empty rear axle load is not much different between a gasser and diesel and your actual payload limit really does not increase.
Super_Dave
Explorer
Oct 29, 2019
I embrace my couple of inches of sag as it helps me get closer to a level tow on an otherwise nose high condition. If the truck is also going to be a daily driver, realize that there will be a price for adding the extra springs in the way of a rougher unloaded ride.
valhalla360
Navigator
Oct 29, 2019
Nighduckman wrote:
Honestly, I am a bit embarrassed to say (as a newbie) that I hadn't checked. The truck is all of three weeks old and I put a brand new set of General Grabber ATX tires on the rear for traction if I ever encounter mud etc. So, the tires were running at whatever pressure the dealership and the tire dealer set them at. Now I know better. I stopped by a 4x4 shop this AM and they said, as I have heard from others, that it might be a good idea to put a set of "helper springs" on the rear as that could address some of the squat and make the ride feel more solid and the steering a bit more sure. Since we want to eventually get a camper once we downsize from the fiver, and special rear springs are what is included in the Ford "camper package" upgrade, it strikes me as a reasonable modification and one that isn't too expensive. Certainly won't hurt.

It won't hurt anything but keep in mind the 4x4 shop is in business to sell upgrades. 2" of squat is not a big deal and shouldn't cause any issues.

I was suggesting taking it to a repair shop to make sure nothing was broken. Your truck is more than adequate as it came from the dealer for what you are towing.
Durb
Explorer
Oct 29, 2019
That trailer has a MORryde orbital pin box as an option. If you have this option, make sure your hitch wedge is properly installed with no slop. Don't tow without a wedge installed.
Nighduckman
Explorer
Oct 29, 2019
librty02 wrote:
You have 3800lbs of payload capacity. I would think you don't need helper springs as you have more capacity than most 1 ton SRW diesels do.That camper you talk of what type are you talking about most here consider a 5th or TT or pop up to be a camper

Answer: I was talking about a truck-bed-mounted camper. Once my wife and I are ready to downsize from our fifth wheel, we have been thinking about getting a truck camper which is one of the reasons we went w/ the 2WD F250 to get some extra payload capacity. At 3,759 lbs of available payload, a rear GAWR of 6,340 lbs and a 10,000 lbs GVWR there appear to be a few of the lighter truck campers that would work though not with all the comforts of a fiver for sure.
Nighduckman
Explorer
Oct 29, 2019
Thanks for all the great suggestions and reassurance.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Oct 28, 2019
Too much goofy speculation. From what you said, everything is 100% fine.
Couple inches of sag is to be expected with a moderate load in the bed. F250s have a rather soft initial spring rate and stiffen up after that. You can add whatever you want to the back to stiffen it up more if that's your desire, won't hurt anything.
No your AT tires are not making it drive bad (save for maybe a bit of tread squirm when brand new). It will drive slightly different, lol, with a 5th wheel trailer hooked up. Some folks don't understand that.
You're good, go camping, have fun!
drsteve
Explorer
Oct 28, 2019
Gravity being what it is, a couple inches of sag when loaded is normal. I would not worry about it.