NON Lippert frame TT
Does anyone know who is making a NON Lippert frame Travel Trailer today. Or even a Lippert frame with a different make axle?
Forum Discussion
Nash supplies the frames to Outdoors RV. Nash has their frames "certified" by an outside company. Not sure exactly what their certification means. They call their frames heavy duty, off-road.
Jayco is using the BAL/Norco Ultraframe. Not sure if all models though. Lance does as well. I like the look of the Jayco one better as there are no holes down the sides of the I-beams like the Lance ones have (or did). There's no welds on these frames and you can't weld anything to them. Pretty cool looking. I believe Lance had problems with them in the past but I'm sure the new ones are okay.
Dexter builds frames, but I don't know if any TTs have them. If there are others out there, I'd sure like to hear.
Lippert has numerous designs in the frames on different brands and models. Some have re-inforcement like gussets and 2x2 tubing welded to the underside of the I-beams in the area of the spring hangers. I've seen different configurations and placement of gussets. Some Lippert frames have just the I-beams and spring hangers. You can look at TTs with about the same GVWR and some have decent looking re-enforcement and some will have none. As I understand it, a TT manufacturer gives the frame manufacturer some degree of info. on how they want a frame built and it's not 100% up to the frame manufacturer to do the full design.
Lippert also makes a "fabricated" I-beam made from 3 pieces of mild steel welded together lengthwise (as opposed to a forged I-beam). It's used on a number of lite-weight TTs. Forged beams are better and that's what I would go with if you have a choice.
There are some pretty weak frames out there due to the inherent design of them. On some frames, spring hangers are taller at 6" as opposed to some which are 4" tall. The taller ones increase the leverage on the side of the I-beams which creates a higher chance of getting frame cracks. With over-slung axles, there is higher lateral leverage force compared to under-slung ones. If you have both over-slung axles and the taller spring hangers, you have a higher chance of frame cracks.
Some I-beams are 6" tall and some are 8" tall. Some have thicker flanges and I presume in the vertical web too. Welding is sometimes poor and incomplete on frames.
With all the enclosed underbellies these days, it's not possible to see how cross-bracing between the I-beams is done and it hides all kinds of things that may potentially not be done well. Sometimes cross-bracing is just a piece of 2x2 attached to the side of the I-beam without any re-enforcement and only partially welded. That's why when you see pics of frame cracks, it's part way up the I-beam just above a spring hanger due to metal fatigue. If you attached a camcorder underneath your frame and filmed what happens while towing, you would be amazed to see how much the spring hangers can flex from side to side as you turn corners and while your TT sways side to side as you move down the road. For some frames, it's just a matter of time before you end up with cracks.
A problem with frames is that there are no industry design standards and regulations that a manufacturer must follow. They can build them however they want without repercussion. If something goes wrong, a common reply from them is that you overloaded your TT and it's not their fault. Or they will say "it's within specs."
Frames are often designed to barely handle the dry weight at the factory, let alone the GVWR. Being somewhat facetious, but I think there is some truth to this. Frames are often built as abslolutely light as possible and as cheap as possible which means less metal and thinner metal. There are no standards that specifies what a frame design should be for a given length or weight. Some frames are weak enough that they flex enough vertically as you travel that the super-structure can even be damaged.
Anything you can to do restrain side to side movement at the lower point of the spring hangers will help to minimize the chance of frame cracks. Cross-bracing like the Mor/Ryde one is a good idea or you can make your own. I think the Dexter EZ-flex kit with wet bolts helps too. The shackles are much thicker and won't flex as much and the bushing will last much longer. The plastic ones can fail prematurely. If you have no underbelly material or remove it, you can add gussets to the cross-bracing.
If you are curious and interested in frames or concerned, I suggest going to an RV show and/or some dealer's lot and look under as many TT as you can find. There's a lot of variations in frames. The smartest thing you can do before deciding on a TT to purchase is look at the frame and compare it to others.
If you don't want a Lippert frame, and you want a really top-notch frame, get a Nash or Outdoors RV product. Jayco with their BAL frame would be a second pick and they have a 2 year warranty. Just because it's Lippert doesn't mean it's going to automatically be a potential problem though. It's just that there are better Lippert ones and lesser ones. Choose wisely...
Jayco is using the BAL/Norco Ultraframe. Not sure if all models though. Lance does as well. I like the look of the Jayco one better as there are no holes down the sides of the I-beams like the Lance ones have (or did). There's no welds on these frames and you can't weld anything to them. Pretty cool looking. I believe Lance had problems with them in the past but I'm sure the new ones are okay.
Dexter builds frames, but I don't know if any TTs have them. If there are others out there, I'd sure like to hear.
Lippert has numerous designs in the frames on different brands and models. Some have re-inforcement like gussets and 2x2 tubing welded to the underside of the I-beams in the area of the spring hangers. I've seen different configurations and placement of gussets. Some Lippert frames have just the I-beams and spring hangers. You can look at TTs with about the same GVWR and some have decent looking re-enforcement and some will have none. As I understand it, a TT manufacturer gives the frame manufacturer some degree of info. on how they want a frame built and it's not 100% up to the frame manufacturer to do the full design.
Lippert also makes a "fabricated" I-beam made from 3 pieces of mild steel welded together lengthwise (as opposed to a forged I-beam). It's used on a number of lite-weight TTs. Forged beams are better and that's what I would go with if you have a choice.
There are some pretty weak frames out there due to the inherent design of them. On some frames, spring hangers are taller at 6" as opposed to some which are 4" tall. The taller ones increase the leverage on the side of the I-beams which creates a higher chance of getting frame cracks. With over-slung axles, there is higher lateral leverage force compared to under-slung ones. If you have both over-slung axles and the taller spring hangers, you have a higher chance of frame cracks.
Some I-beams are 6" tall and some are 8" tall. Some have thicker flanges and I presume in the vertical web too. Welding is sometimes poor and incomplete on frames.
With all the enclosed underbellies these days, it's not possible to see how cross-bracing between the I-beams is done and it hides all kinds of things that may potentially not be done well. Sometimes cross-bracing is just a piece of 2x2 attached to the side of the I-beam without any re-enforcement and only partially welded. That's why when you see pics of frame cracks, it's part way up the I-beam just above a spring hanger due to metal fatigue. If you attached a camcorder underneath your frame and filmed what happens while towing, you would be amazed to see how much the spring hangers can flex from side to side as you turn corners and while your TT sways side to side as you move down the road. For some frames, it's just a matter of time before you end up with cracks.
A problem with frames is that there are no industry design standards and regulations that a manufacturer must follow. They can build them however they want without repercussion. If something goes wrong, a common reply from them is that you overloaded your TT and it's not their fault. Or they will say "it's within specs."
Frames are often designed to barely handle the dry weight at the factory, let alone the GVWR. Being somewhat facetious, but I think there is some truth to this. Frames are often built as abslolutely light as possible and as cheap as possible which means less metal and thinner metal. There are no standards that specifies what a frame design should be for a given length or weight. Some frames are weak enough that they flex enough vertically as you travel that the super-structure can even be damaged.
Anything you can to do restrain side to side movement at the lower point of the spring hangers will help to minimize the chance of frame cracks. Cross-bracing like the Mor/Ryde one is a good idea or you can make your own. I think the Dexter EZ-flex kit with wet bolts helps too. The shackles are much thicker and won't flex as much and the bushing will last much longer. The plastic ones can fail prematurely. If you have no underbelly material or remove it, you can add gussets to the cross-bracing.
If you are curious and interested in frames or concerned, I suggest going to an RV show and/or some dealer's lot and look under as many TT as you can find. There's a lot of variations in frames. The smartest thing you can do before deciding on a TT to purchase is look at the frame and compare it to others.
If you don't want a Lippert frame, and you want a really top-notch frame, get a Nash or Outdoors RV product. Jayco with their BAL frame would be a second pick and they have a 2 year warranty. Just because it's Lippert doesn't mean it's going to automatically be a potential problem though. It's just that there are better Lippert ones and lesser ones. Choose wisely...
