Now towing with a HDT, why didn't I do this years ago

me1magoo wrote:
I have a '74 GMC Astro cabover tractor with a Detroit 8v92 and 13 speed. I am seriously considering making it a single axle, stretching the frame, making it full air ride and after restoring it completely making it a "classic" HDT/ combo hauler. Whatcha think about that fellas??
It's been sitting for about 20 years and I am going to restore it (yes I am prepared and capable of the challenge), just the options of the final purpose are still up in the air.
1- Restore back to original for show quality and "classic look".
2- Restore and modify to make an excellent "hot rod" truck
3- Restore and modify as above to haul a small car on a deck and tow fifth wheel trailers and set up more as an RV function

Option 3. That would be a show stopper!

Mr. Cob, thanks for sharing all the info on your HDT. You present the options well and my guess is we've all learned a lot.

In 1980 I drove an astro 8V92,(wish it was a Turbine), ten speed, Hauled wire spools for Bell Telephone.. One of the most comfortable classy cab overs ever!! Would love to see it restored to Original. Although it would make a very nice RV hauler, CO tend to be rough on the back and kidneys after a long haul.

And yes please keep us posted as to your decision!!

blt2ski wrote:
Jim,

Something to think about, with a gvwr of 14K lbs, sum of axels in the 15K range, you fall in the DOT class 4 relm of a truck ie 13501-16500 gvw. You do not have a 1 ton any more in my book! which is a DOT class 3 going from 10001 to 13500 lbs. Reality is, you have an MDT, not an LDT any more! Those typically will have a higher duty cycle use spec than a LDT.

But, as I have had issues with some trucks, just because I am under the ratings by an old time engineer, I have had some literally not make it to where I felt I could go. Hence why I personally do not truck ALL the engineers ratings. In fact, I made an engineer at the dmax factory squim in front of 5 others when asking him point blank. WHERE will said new dmax in 01 go up how steep a grade before stalling out? how fast on a freeway grade? etc, ie the specs that the rating and how it was applied. All I got was silence, then a I have those results on my computer at the office, gave him an email, along with getting his. Did not get specs for 2 weeks, emailed him, still to this day, the Friday before 9-11 when I asked for the specs, I have yet to recieve them!

Marty

No qualms with you Marty, I know where you stand same as you know where I stand and we do pretty much agree on a lot of things. Now I never said I trusted "all" Engineer ratings, just the one's I REALLY know about and that's products "MY" company manufacturers...I just stated I understand why some ratings are the way they are, ie, (the sum of each component that makes that 1 unit, each has it's specs and each has built in "buffers").....

I know where I'll be doing most of my towing, and unless I were to go grossly overboard with a much heavier 5er, I'll be good to go with my "maybe a 1 ton, maybe not":B

HEY, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU IN HERE!!!

me1magoo wrote:
I have a '74 GMC Astro cabover tractor with a Detroit 8v92 and 13 speed. I am seriously considering making it a single axle, stretching the frame, making it full air ride and after restoring it completely making it a "classic" HDT/ combo hauler. Whatcha think about that fellas??
It's been sitting for about 20 years and I am going to restore it (yes I am prepared and capable of the challenge), just the options of the final purpose are still up in the air.
1- Restore back to original for show quality and "classic look".
2- Restore and modify to make an excellent "hot rod" truck
3- Restore and modify as above to haul a small car on a deck and tow fifth wheel trailers and set up more as an RV function

Howdy Mat,

I think you could make one heck of an RV totter out of the old truck, the only thing I would be concerned about is ride quality as your sitting over the front axle. If you do this please post a build thread.

Dave

me1magoo wrote:
I have a '74 GMC Astro cabover tractor with a Detroit 8v92 and 13 speed. I am seriously considering making it a single axle, stretching the frame, making it full air ride and after restoring it completely making it a "classic" HDT/ combo hauler. Whatcha think about that fellas??
It's been sitting for about 20 years and I am going to restore it (yes I am prepared and capable of the challenge), just the options of the final purpose are still up in the air.
1- Restore back to original for show quality and "classic look".
2- Restore and modify to make an excellent "hot rod" truck
3- Restore and modify as above to haul a small car on a deck and tow fifth wheel trailers and set up more as an RV function

I think you are onto an awesome project! I really hope to have the cash & time to restore a classic class 8 someday.

Sure, anyone with the cash could buy a newer one, but the "unique" factor of restored classics is priceless and the reason we go to car shows instead of just walking around a new car lot.

If you go through with it, create a thread so we can follow your progress :C

I vote for option 3 though there's no bad choice there LOL

Jim,

Something to think about, with a gvwr of 14K lbs, sum of axels in the 15K range, you fall in the DOT class 4 relm of a truck ie 13501-16500 gvw. You do not have a 1 ton any more in my book! which is a DOT class 3 going from 10001 to 13500 lbs. Reality is, you have an MDT, not an LDT any more! Those typically will have a higher duty cycle use spec than a LDT.

But, as I have had issues with some trucks, just because I am under the ratings by an old time engineer, I have had some literally not make it to where I felt I could go. Hence why I personally do not truck ALL the engineers ratings. In fact, I made an engineer at the dmax factory squim in front of 5 others when asking him point blank. WHERE will said new dmax in 01 go up how steep a grade before stalling out? how fast on a freeway grade? etc, ie the specs that the rating and how it was applied. All I got was silence, then a I have those results on my computer at the office, gave him an email, along with getting his. Did not get specs for 2 weeks, emailed him, still to this day, the Friday before 9-11 when I asked for the specs, I have yet to recieve them!

Marty

I have a '74 GMC Astro cabover tractor with a Detroit 8v92 and 13 speed. I am seriously considering making it a single axle, stretching the frame, making it full air ride and after restoring it completely making it a "classic" HDT/ combo hauler. Whatcha think about that fellas??
It's been sitting for about 20 years and I am going to restore it (yes I am prepared and capable of the challenge), just the options of the final purpose are still up in the air.
1- Restore back to original for show quality and "classic look".
2- Restore and modify to make an excellent "hot rod" truck
3- Restore and modify as above to haul a small car on a deck and tow fifth wheel trailers and set up more as an RV function

06Fargo wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

jims1 wrote:
I too am making this leap to the dark side. What alot of folks don't realize is that their Dodges, Fords, and Chevy's are not built to handle the advertised weight ratings day in, day out. We tow 17.5-18k depending on the level in the tanks. .

Some truth to that, but there are also a lot of us out here who do know what they're doing, can do the simple math and know what we need to tow with. My 2013' Ram 3500 crew cab, long bed, 4X4 Dually, with 4:10 gearing has a GVWR of 14,000#, with a RAWR of 9750# and a GCWR of 37,000#. My 5er has a GVW of 16,950#, loaded to 16,050, with a 3300# pin weight. CAT scales has my truck loaded, ready to hook to my 5er with full tanks,5er hitch, wife, pets and toolbox @ 9,420#. That put's my loaded truck at a weight of 12,720#( 9420# plus 3300# pin weight), and total weight of 25,470.(5er @ 16,050# plus truck loaded weight of 9420)) So as you can see, I'm 1280# under my trucks GVWR, and WELL under my trucks GCWR and doing it all with a 1 ton crew cab dually which, at this time, has to also be my daily driver.

You're basically saying, those that tow well over their trucks limits day in , day out, won't last.. I agree with you on this, if it's what you meant. But i also believe if one has matched the truck with what they're towing, and is maintained properly it WILL perform day in and day out, just as it was designed to do.

My truck also has the medium duty Aisin transmission option in it, which, which makes my towing combo of Cummins/Aisin a little more robust, capable of towing even your examples of a 5er in the 17.5-18K weight range with just the 1 ton dually....

Any speculation at all why Chrysler engineers (lawyers?) rate a pickup for 37,000lbs GCWR, but it is not rated to haul the sum of it's two axle ratings without a trailer?

Being an Engineer myself in a manufacturing plant that manufacturers brake calipers, I don't pretend to know it all, nor least of all "speculate" on anything without knowing fact's given to me by the manufacturer of the sum of all the components that it takes to build a brake caliper, be it single piston, dual piston, combi-caliper, ABS, ESC, etc..., can't help it, have been in manufacturing since 75..

My RAWR is 9750#, my FAWR is 6,000#, together that equals 15,750, though recommended GVWR is only 14,000# ( Math/calc/statistics/robotics is my "bag:)). SO, being an old engineer, one who has more common sense than most of the younger Engineers, I go by what is recommended and use specs and comply with what other engineers have come up with due to reliability or safety reasons, (based on my part of manufacturing).

and I really don't understand what you want me to "speculate on when you ask, "Any speculation at all why Chrysler engineers (lawyers?) rate a pickup for 37,000lbs GCWR, but it is not rated to haul the sum of it's two axle ratings without a trailer? I have NO idea what you're asking me and I have a Degree in Secondary Ed, (thought I wanted to be a school teacher and never followed through, then got an Engineering degree, and I really can tell you that Engineers are NOT Lawyers...that's more in the warranty and responsibility, liability dept of a manufacturer....our company has Engineers who are just that, Engineer's, then they have a completely different building in another state that takes care of liability claims, contracts, warranties, etc.... if there are any, or any accident's due to our products, which are used on Chrysler, GM, Ford, Volvo, Mercedes Benz, VW, BMW and several others that use our brake by wire, ABS, ESC systems and brake calipers and adapters, and also the new combi-calipers...

It seems everywhere I post, you have issues with me trying to follow my trucks recommended tow ratings, or when I bring up weights. ...WHY?? I know it's not popular, I get called names, get ugly PM's, but it still doesn't change my mind when it comes to matching tow vehicles up with what one is towing. It's as though you are trying to justify yourself though me going in the opposite direction. I really don't understand your question. I gave all my weights, I fall WELL within all my weights, not even over my trucks GVWR, no where close to touching my RAWR, with OEM "E" rated tires, and it appears you have issues with this. I don't need air bags, I don't need to talk about all the safety buffers built in, I don't need to say a 1 ton SRW truck is just like mine, except the tires, (because in my trucks comparison, that is not true).

You need to call Chrysler Corporation to get your answer, and it'll probably be one you won't accept or want to hear.....I know and live specs, can't help it....it's what "I" do, whether anyone else does it or not, I can take the name calling, the piling on and the filthiness I've gotten in personal pm's from some on these forums, but, it won't change my mind about matching the right tow vehicle up to what ever it's towing, using the recommended hitch, and speeds that I think are safe to tow at....matters not if no one agrees with me, I still believe what I believe.

Sorry I couldn't answer your question as to why Chrysler recommends a certain amount of weight to be towed...I would say that you could call Ford or GM and get the same answer from THEIR Engineers and lawyers, but it probably wouldn't make any difference to you...

NC Hauler wrote:

jims1 wrote:
I too am making this leap to the dark side. What alot of folks don't realize is that their Dodges, Fords, and Chevy's are not built to handle the advertised weight ratings day in, day out. We tow 17.5-18k depending on the level in the tanks. .

Some truth to that, but there are also a lot of us out here who do know what they're doing, can do the simple math and know what we need to tow with. My 2013' Ram 3500 crew cab, long bed, 4X4 Dually, with 4:10 gearing has a GVWR of 14,000#, with a RAWR of 9750# and a GCWR of 37,000#. My 5er has a GVW of 16,950#, loaded to 16,050, with a 3300# pin weight. CAT scales has my truck loaded, ready to hook to my 5er with full tanks,5er hitch, wife, pets and toolbox @ 9,420#. That put's my loaded truck at a weight of 12,720#( 9420# plus 3300# pin weight), and total weight of 25,470.(5er @ 16,050# plus truck loaded weight of 9420)) So as you can see, I'm 1280# under my trucks GVWR, and WELL under my trucks GCWR and doing it all with a 1 ton crew cab dually which, at this time, has to also be my daily driver.

You're basically saying, those that tow well over their trucks limits day in , day out, won't last.. I agree with you on this, if it's what you meant. But i also believe if one has matched the truck with what they're towing, and is maintained properly it WILL perform day in and day out, just as it was designed to do.

My truck also has the medium duty Aisin transmission option in it, which, which makes my towing combo of Cummins/Aisin a little more robust, capable of towing even your examples of a 5er in the 17.5-18K weight range with just the 1 ton dually....

Any speculation at all why Chrysler engineers (lawyers?) rate a pickup for 37,000lbs GCWR, but it is not rated to haul the sum of it's two axle ratings without a trailer?

jims1 wrote:
I too am making this leap to the dark side. What alot of folks don't realize is that their Dodges, Fords, and Chevy's are not built to handle the advertised weight ratings day in, day out. We tow 17.5-18k depending on the level in the tanks. .

Some truth to that, but there are also a lot of us out here who do know what they're doing, can do the simple math and know what we need to tow with. My 2013' Ram 3500 crew cab, long bed, 4X4 Dually, with 4:10 gearing has a GVWR of 14,000#, with a RAWR of 9750# and a GCWR of 37,000#. My 5er has a GVW of 16,950#, loaded to 16,050, with a 3300# pin weight. CAT scales has my truck loaded, ready to hook to my 5er with full tanks,5er hitch, wife, pets and toolbox @ 9,420#. That put's my loaded truck at a weight of 12,720#( 9420# plus 3300# pin weight), and total weight of 25,470.(5er @ 16,050# plus truck loaded weight of 9420)) So as you can see, I'm 1280# under my trucks GVWR, and WELL under my trucks GCWR and doing it all with a 1 ton crew cab dually which, at this time, has to also be my daily driver.

You're basically saying, those that tow well over their trucks limits day in , day out, won't last.. I agree with you on this, if it's what you meant. But i also believe if one has matched the truck with what they're towing, and is maintained properly it WILL perform day in and day out, just as it was designed to do.

My truck also has the medium duty Aisin transmission option in it, which, which makes my towing combo of Cummins/Aisin a little more robust, capable of towing even your examples of a 5er in the 17.5-18K weight range with just the 1 ton dually....