Outdoor HD Tv Antenna

haste maker wrote:
We have a Winegard antenna...amplifier is turned on

There are so many misstatements in this thread it's difficult to know where to start. :R

First, as already pointed out there is no such thing as an HDTV antenna ... that's merely an advertising term as the antenna doesn't know or care what type of signal it's receiving, whether HDTV signals or coded data messages from Mars. What you're really looking for is an antenna designed for greater sensitivity in the UHF television broadcast band which is where most stations are currently broadcasting, 'though as Jeff pointed out that is likely to change in the future and will ultimately prove to be the Achilles' Heel of the Jack antenna which performs really poorly in the VHF television broadcast bands. Conveniently the manufacturer fails to point that out. :W

Secondly, as so often repeated in forum discussion many if not most "assume" that wall plate you're turning on is an amplifier - it's not, it's merely routing 12 vdc to the antenna head which is where the signal amplifier is located in a Sensar III or Sensar IV. Yes, you could add a Winegard SensarPro which does contain a 10 db amplifier but as Jeff already pointed out overall signal strength improvement is marginal because signal noise is amplified as well. I've got one and while it does help it's not the magic panacea that Winegard would have you believe. :R

Third, we know you have a Winegard antenna but unfortunately we don't know whether it's a Sensar III that's most sensitive in the VHF television broadcast band or a Sensar IV which has the Wingman added to it to improve it's sensitivity in the UHF television band where most stations are currently broadcasting. Your 2013 Laredo could have either but if it's a III then the most obvious improvement you can make is to add a Wingman to bring it to Sensar IV specs.

Jeff's comments that antenna elevation, weather, tree coverage, etc, can all affect reception are certainly true. I park my own trailer here at the house which is located within the Greater Toronto Area here in S Ontario and in early spring receive all stations in this area including those broadcasting from the CN Tower and including all the major US stations broadcasting out of Buffalo. In the last few weeks however tree foliage has filled in and most of the Buffalo stations are now really intermittent, usually unwatchable. The only solution is to elevate the antenna even higher (impractical) or install a larger array (also impractical) or both (totally impractical).

You've not mentioned scanning but without first rotating the antenna completely and doing multiple scans there's no way your HD television is going to be able to receive all HD television signals available in your area ... i.e. you can't just crank the antenna up, turn on the television, and expect to receive much of anything. Antenna rotation with multiple scans is a necessity, not an option.

Bottom line, if you're expecting to receive HD television signals as you did analogue signals a few years ago you'll be sorely disappointed. If this is so important that you can't get along without it while camping then you should be looking at satellite reception and forget about conventional OTA.

And that post is my cue to warn folks that the FCC is about to auction off a large portion of the UHF band to the wireless guys. Some will be bought out and go away, some will get relocated elsewhere in the UHF band, but the FCC will be paying millions for stations to move BACK to VHF, meaning VHF will be again loaded up. Having said that, the Jack antenna is TERRIBLE antenna on VHF, it simply is not a VHF antenna. Anyone insisting on a Jack antenna will be replacing it in the future.

The problem with digital tv either standard or HD is that it is a go or no-go situation.

With the old analog tv as the signal faded you have more and more snow until the signal was unwatchable. However, could get very snowy and still be watchable and the sound was last to go.

Digital TV gave us more channels and better resolution but unless the signal is strong it will not lock in and work.

It is either all or nothing.

All antennas receive signals, HD or otherwise. In general the higher the better, the more elements the better and the more gain the antenna amplifier has the better. But these features cost, increase size and may not be suitable for a 65 mph TT environment.

So, for the typical RVer, it is the time tested bat wing or King/jack. About as good as you are likely to find unless you modify a home antenna for RV use.

Gdetrailer wrote:


No, not jumping to conclusions.

The fact is, .............

Yes you ARE.
The fact IS that he hasn't told us what he has NOW so you are ASSuming.

The fact IS that all you said may or may not apply depending on what his starting point is. At this point, you don't KNOW what he has so making absolute statements like that might be more damaging than helpful.

Sam Spade wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

haste maker wrote:
We have a Winegard antenna...amplifier is turned on

You are out of luck, it WILL take a much bigger and better antenna to overcome the blockies and freezes.

Not much jumping to unwarranted conclusions here......is there ??
Answer: yes there IS.

You don't have enough information to make that sweeping statement.

For instance: WHICH Winegard antenna do they have ? And do they know that they probably need to turn it to get good reception from EACH channel that they switch to......and each different channel might require rotating it a bit ???

With most of them you can't just stick it up in the air and forget about it.

No, not jumping to conclusions.

The fact is, ATSC signals are not robust at all and is very easy to swamp with noise. It takes a considerable amount of GOOD CLEAN STRONG signal to get a blocky free pix.

The ONLY way to get a good clean strong signal is to INCREASE your antenna size.. THEN apply a good low noise amplifier.

The truth of the matter is a Wingard batwing (or even the fabled "Jack") is a DIPOLE antenna, it gives NO signal gain. Adding a amplifier to a batwing only gives a marginal increase of signal and at the same time the amplifier ADDS NOISE to the very signal it is supposed to be increasing. The result is almost no usable gain in signal.

The larger the antenna is the more signal it has that can be fed into a low noise amplifier.. The result is enough signal to overcome the blockies..

What you used to get away with using for NTSC does not always translate well with ATSC.

For example, I am about 50 air miles from most of the TV stations in my area. I USED to be able to get a dozen stations using nothing more than "rabbit ears".. Those rabbit ears only get me 1 solid station and several blocky stations.

Even my big outdoor 10 ft long antenna that I used for NTSC, I discovered that ATSC does not work well with passive splitters.. Just not enough signal left after going through a 8 way passive.. I ended up buying a amplified coupler which has a low gain, low noise amp on each port for $170..

I also discovered that TREEs block ATSC, I lose stations in the summer when the trees have leaves..

I also discovered that RAIN AND SNOW affects ATSC..

Height above ground also affects ATSC more than NTSC, an antenna placed 20ft in the air tends to work better than one at 10ft in the air.

RFI noise affects ATSC, so converters, inverters, DC brush motors, LEDs with poorly designed switching regulators and even TVs themselves can easily swamp the extremely fragile ATSC signal..

And YES, the FCC knew about these short comings before they approved the final rules.

If you are camping in the woods and more than 20 miles from a transmitter you WILL have blocky stations on a dipole and that includes a amplified dipole.

In a nutshell, there is nothing the OP can do which is going to help the current Winegard. If they want OTA where they camp, they will need to use a bigger antenna OR consider paying for Dish or Direct or rent a bunch of movies..

But, hey, what is the point going camping if your life revolves around the glowing "screen".. Plenty of other ways to use your time camping.

Gdetrailer wrote:

haste maker wrote:
We have a Winegard antenna...amplifier is turned on

You are out of luck, it WILL take a much bigger and better antenna to overcome the blockies and freezes.

Not much jumping to unwarranted conclusions here......is there ??
Answer: yes there IS.

You don't have enough information to make that sweeping statement.

For instance: WHICH Winegard antenna do they have ? And do they know that they probably need to turn it to get good reception from EACH channel that they switch to......and each different channel might require rotating it a bit ???

With most of them you can't just stick it up in the air and forget about it.

haste maker wrote:
We have a Winegard antenna...amplifier is turned on

You are out of luck, it WILL take a much bigger and better antenna to overcome the blockies and freezes.

While a lot of folks flock to those UHF antennas they are not all that great in many areas. The reason for this is Many broadcast markets are STILL served by the VHF "Hi" band which is old analog 7-13.. So not all stations are broadcasting on UHF.. Using a UHF only antenna pretty much eliminates any broadcaster that may be using the old analog 7-13 since UHF antennas are physically to small to have any "gain" at those frequencies..

You need to get a much bigger antenna in order to get one that has some gain on VHF and it will have more gain on UHF..

Once you have a better antenna, then you can add in a good quality antenna amp (two piece with the amp mounted at the antenna and the power supply at the TV). You need a low noise with high gain amp for this..

Then because the antenna has gain it will be more directional, so you will need to add a antenna rotor so you will not have to go back and forth to move the antenna since ATSC is a bit more touchy on direction..

Then you will need to find and remove any passive splitters.. Those things just eat up signal.. If you must have more than one TV then you will need to buy a good quality amplified coupler.. Those are not cheap..

Need good quality RG-6 coax, RG-59 has too much loss at UHF frequencies..

All told, you will be spending somewhere north of $400 before the dust settles so you can all of three or four stations.

Had the same problem as you. Went with the King Jack antenna and it pulls in stations very strong. Yes it has to be pointed exactly, but when done it has great reception.

I know of many people that have switched to the jack and are happy!

We have a Winegard antenna...amplifier is turned on

haste maker wrote:
The problem we are now having is we keep losing the signal from the TV station & we get a blank screen, reading "low HD signal"...thought maybe the trouble was the wrong antenna..we have the crank up antenna that came on the roof from the factory.

That sentence makes it MUCH clearer. What is currently on the roof? If you cannot find anything on the antenna, a picture will do wonders. Its probably not the "wrong" antenna, but maybe not the "right" antenna for what YOU do.