Pop Up Soft Side Campers in the Winter

SidecarFlip wrote:
A HS is superrior but they are also much heavier. We lay in foil-bubble-foil between the inner canvas window closures and the rain flaps. That insulates the canvas pretty well.

Most HS TC's have little insulation in the sidewalls anyway (unless specified at build time as a cold weather camper and the walls (between the inner and outer aren't very thick anyway (maybe an inch of dead space) so insulating isn't much, no matter what.

I agree that there is not a lot of insulation in the hard side TC's but I have to take issue with them being much heavier. I just looked up the dry weight of your pop up (1978lb) and a similar length Northern Lite(2150lb). very similar in weight and the northern Lite had a larger fridge plus other standard features that your pop up did not have. Yes, there are hard sides that are over 5000lbs with triple slides etc. but when you compare apples to apples, the two styles of TC's are not that different in weight. My Outfitter 9.5' had a ready to camp weight of 3250lbs. Not a lite TC.

Of course COG, less wind resistance, etc are some of the reason folks choose pop up TC's.

Dave

I'm surprised that the newer hard side TCs don't have much insulation -- many of the newer travel trailers have thick panels of styrofoam in the walls and ceilings. Is there some reason that the TCs don't have this feature?

By the way, while on the topic of hard side vs popup TCs, does the pop-up feature result in a noticeably lower center of gravity or better mpg due to less wind resistance?

A HS is superrior but they are also much heavier. We lay in foil-bubble-foil between the inner canvas window closures and the rain flaps. That insulates the canvas pretty well.

Most HS TC's have little insulation in the sidewalls anyway (unless specified at build time as a cold weather camper and the walls (between the inner and outer aren't very thick anyway (maybe an inch of dead space) so insulating isn't much, no matter what.

The grizzly thing has nothing to do with winter but to answer your question, we were told we could not stay in the full hook up area at Lake Louise after prebooking because the Parks people consider the Soft sided TC's are the same as tent trailers. We never are in full hook ups but because my son had booked for 3 days to attend a wedding, we were to look after the grandson for the night. They did relocate us to the tenting area that had an electric fence around it.

Our Outfitter had I think, 11 windows in the vinyl pop up area and were great when travelling in the warmer months for ventillation and light but they definatly leaked a lot of air compared to the hard sided thermal pane windows. My opinion after having 3 hard side and one pop up over the years is for winter camping(read cold temperatures), hard sides are superior .


Dave

bcbuoy, people who "sleep commando" while snow camping without running the heater at night are either really rugged or else they have some fairly compelling reason to engage in this particular practice. I am emphatically not saying that no one does this. I am just saying that it takes a certain level of personal commitment. ;)

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned the issue of grizzlies -- Dave would know this better than I do, but aren't there places where popup campers are not allowed due to bears? On the other hand, if you are really camping in the dead of winter, no problem -- the bears are fast asleep!

one thing that really helps is a good memory foam mattress topper.we got ours from costco.helps to keep the cold from coming up from below,plus a really thick down comforter.getting up in the middle of he night to relieve is never any fun tho.especially if you sleep commando.

profdant139 wrote:
I hate to sound like a caveman here, but it is really possible to live comfortably with the internal temp at 50 during the morning and evening and at 35 at night. We have done this many, many times while snow-camping. We use a down comforter at night and we bundle up when we are out of bed (breakfast and dinner).

The only time we bring the internal temp up to 70 is for a few minutes during shower time, in the evening, for obvious reasons. Otherwise, the furnace is usually off.

My point is that a pop-up truck camper will be just fine for mild snow camping (down to the single digits). As the Eskimos say, "There is no bad weather, just bad clothing." ;)

I agree and condensation can be an issue in a Hard side as well. I have no issue with my pop up in the winter either.

We have a nice 12 volt electric blanket we use.

In the ten years we camped in our Phoenix popup, we were more frequently concerned with keeping cool in the summer than keeping warm in the winter. And our 5000 btu window air conditioner did the job adequately.

However, I do recall one overnight when the outside temperature hit 9 degrees F and we were quite comfortable. I don’t think we used the furnace much if at all, preferring the more even heat of our little portable electric heater. And that was before we invested in winter sleeping bags – a good idea if you want to do much winter camping. I might mention that we prefer to keep our cabover on the cool side for sleeping.

Another time we camped in the snow without hookups and our propane furnace kept us comfortable. Although we didn’t do a lot of cold-weather camping, we refilled our single propane tank only once a year.

Others have mentioned condensation, which can be a nuisance when it’s dripping off the ceiling. But it’s not a show stopper. By paying attention to your use of the cookstove, you can put less moisture into the air. We did try a dehumidifier, but the one we bought was worthless.

All things considered, I wouldn’t hesitate to cold-weather camp in a popup such as our Phoenix – although we never did so when the temperature was below zero F.

Any comparisons between a popup and a tent strike me as ludicrous. I agree with the speculation that the person making that comparison never did any cold-weather camping in a popup. In fact, I would not be surprised to learn that this person had never stepped inside a popup.

Love to read the responses to a question like this. I know people that camp in tents, vans, cars, RV's all year round and they all do well, some like me even enjoy it. But it all comes down to what you expect. If you want 72 degree temps with no drafts then you will be out of luck with most forms of accommodations in the winter, if you want to survive a night then sure you can do that many ways.

If you can borrow or try to find someone that you can go out with for a night. Someone's "comfortable night" may not be what you expect. Someone's "I would never" may be luxury to you.

Also like mentioned decide what the temps are that you are planning to camp in. The older I get the higher the minimum temp gets, -40 when I was younger was fine, lately -20 and I will stay home and remember the "good ole days" :-)

First off define winter. South Carolina vs North Dakota. Might be a bit of a difference. Temperatures are important as in Colorado, elevation is everything when looking at winter conditions.

We have just sold our Pop Up TC and although we have never truly camped in the winter with this soft side,(we have in a previous Polar Pack hard side), there were times when the temps were well below freezing that we have camped for short periods. As has been said, condenstion is a problem. The cooler the TC becomes, the more the condensation condenses on the vinyl walls, which have the least amount of insulation. Warm, moist air when it meets a cool surface will consense into water droplets. If you use enough propane/electric heat, this is less of a problem as long as you can crack a vent or window.

We lived 32 years in north central BC and TCs are very popular because most people have trucks and most people have access to wilderness areas so towing a boat or quad/sled trailer is very common. The one thing that is not common are pop up TCs. Almost unheard of and it is because most people want to use their TCs a least for 3 seasons and the temperatures can be pretty cold in the non summer months. TC owners have their pick of anything they want and because of the insulation and condendation issues, when the weather gets cold, soft sided TCs are just not as effective as hard sides. Of course for ventilation, windows etc they are great like in the dryer, desert areas.

People have survived for decades in tent frames with wood stoves in winter under very cold conditions so anything is possible, but it all comes down to insulation vs how much energy are you willing to use to keep comfortable.

Dave