Pop Up Soft Side Campers in the Winter

We camped in our Bronco popup TC in 25-degree nights, and our electric heater kept the inside acceptably warm. The first night, I learned to have plenty of ventilation, because the condensation coming off the (closed) vent cover was dripping on me :-( We found that leaving the front under-the-cabover window open about 1" and leaving the roof vent cracked open about 1/2" was the right combo to prevent condensation yet didn't cool too fast.

profdant139 wrote:
Isbram, a wild guess -- is that the picnic area at the east end of Slide Lake, near Atherton Creek Campground, near the Tetons?

And how thick was that ice?

No I've never been there, I was at Tarryall Reservoir about 20 miles east of Fairplay CO.
I don't remember the ice thickness on that trip but that reservoir has a stream running thru it all year, it can make for some thin spots in an otherwise + 10" frozen lake.
There are some real nice sized rainbow trout in there.

I live in Colorado and I would be using it in the winter but not when it's -10 degrees Fahrenheit. I would also be using it in the spring when I will drive to the east coast to visit family.

We have an Outfitter Apex8. It regularly gets down to 10 degrees in Colorado in October. We set the thermostat on 40 degrees and sleep comfortably. We have "trucker's pads" in the sleeping bags which warms them up before retiring. We run the Honda 2000 in the morning for about an hour, and then for a couple of hours at night to charge the battery.

I've had good results camping in the winter with my Outfitter and the experience was quite similar to ISBRAM above.

A number of Outfitter owners have installed a Wave 3 propane heater and reported good results. A Wave 3 heater doesn't use a blower.

Isbram, a wild guess -- is that the picnic area at the east end of Slide Lake, near Atherton Creek Campground, near the Tetons?

And how thick was that ice?

Our Hallmark has never had a problem staying at whatever temperature we set the thermostat at, even when it’s windy and in the low teens. I’ve taken it ice fishing many times and have been very happy with its performance. The insulated soft wall is warm to the touch on the inside when compared to the glass of the windows. Hallmark provided us with some snap on insulated polar window covers made from the same material and upholstered on the inside, they make a heck of a difference in cold weather.
One time we had some friends that owned a popup tent trailer go ice fishing with us; they couldn’t get above the low 50’s inside their camper when it was about 15 degrees outside. We had ours set at 68 and the furnace would cycle on for just a few minutes at a time four times an hour or so.

csh_2088, welcome to the TC Forum and there are many here that can answer just about any question you might have with information from their own experiences.

Your answer in staying warmer relates to any Truck Camper, hardside or pop-up. It comes down to two things, how warm you want to stay and how much propane you bring. If you are using propane your time in a Truck Camper will be limited in how cold the outside temperatures are and how warm you want to be. So it comes down to the amount of propane. In a Pop-Up Camper you are going to be limited with how much propane you can carry.

Winter time you would be better served in using dry heat, only available by plugging in to nearby hookups. This is with electric heaters. This will also greatly reduce the condensation.

That all being said and the many directions the answers coming in are going, a description of really what you plan on doing might bring you more specific information to what you truly need.

Good luck.

b

crosscheck wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
A HS is superrior but they are also much heavier. We lay in foil-bubble-foil between the inner canvas window closures and the rain flaps. That insulates the canvas pretty well.

Most HS TC's have little insulation in the sidewalls anyway (unless specified at build time as a cold weather camper and the walls (between the inner and outer aren't very thick anyway (maybe an inch of dead space) so insulating isn't much, no matter what.

I agree that there is not a lot of insulation in the hard side TC's but I have to take issue with them being much heavier. I just looked up the dry weight of your pop up (1978lb) and a similar length Northern Lite(2150lb). very similar in weight and the northern Lite had a larger fridge plus other standard features that your pop up did not have. Yes, there are hard sides that are over 5000lbs with triple slides etc. but when you compare apples to apples, the two styles of TC's are not that different in weight. My Outfitter 9.5' had a ready to camp weight of 3250lbs. Not a lite TC.

Of course COG, less wind resistance, etc are some of the reason folks choose pop up TC's.

Dave

My Lance had an advertised dry weight of 2375 and Lance is noted for erroneous light weight figures. Add in water, propane food and assorted stuff and you are pushing 3000 pounds in a high profile, not fuel efficient package and because things like the refrigerator, microwave and storage cupboards are mounted high, the CG is high so the unit becomes a handful on the road and off road. I know. That is why I sold it and went to a popup.

My SS1500 Palomino has an advetised dry weight of 1900 pounds or 2400 loaded with everything, not particularly light but well within the capabilities of my F350 SRW pickup. More importantly however is the lower CG of a pop up and the profile. It's easier to deal with in the wind, on the road and the lower CG makes off road handling much better and I camp primarily off road.

An added benefit for me is I can store the pop up in my garage, out of the weather when I'm not using it, protected from the elements. That was impossible with the Lance HS. A major plus in my view, in as much as all RV's deteriorate at a faster rate when stored outside constantly. The sun and rain and snow take their toll on seals and the general apperance of any RV. Inside storage adds to the life and keeps the unit looking nice.

If you plan on trading off every few years for a new unit, inside out of the weather storage may not be a factor, but I keep a unit long term so inside storage is an important consideration.

profdant139 wrote:
I'm surprised that the newer hard side TCs don't have much insulation -- many of the newer travel trailers have thick panels of styrofoam in the walls and ceilings. Is there some reason that the TCs don't have this feature?

By the way, while on the topic of hard side vs popup TCs, does the pop-up feature result in a noticeably lower center of gravity or better mpg due to less wind resistance?

What is thick? 1" styrofoam don't yield much in R value in the fist place, maybe R5, maybe. More of a sound deadening quality than anything else.

I have 1.5 inches in the roof of my pop up TC and 1" in the sidewalls (between the inner wall and the outside Filon skin, which is all you can get in there anyway. More about noise abatement than anything else.

In any unit, reducing the drafts and air movement equates to better heating, moreso than insulation. But then the ugly condensation issue comes about so it's a balance between stagnant air and condensation versus air movement and condensation mitigation and that applies to any camper, hard side or soft side. I rum my Fantastic fan on thermostat and let it provide air movement, but it's till a balancing act. Any enclosed confined space with human inhabatants aspirating moisture from their bodies (we all do, all the time) will produce condensation on cooler surfaces (walls, windows and doors). Fact of life and physics.

Your second comment concerning Cg, a popup will always have a lower Cg than a hard side because the Cg is entirely predicated on the fixed location of heavier items (appliances and storage). In a popup, items like fridges and microwaves are mounted lower than a hard side, resulting in a lower Cg. Design predicates that, The top has to be able to be lowered and yes, the fuel mileage is better as well. Popups are always a lower profile, thus less wind resistance and they are usually lighter than a HS as well.

I used to get 13 with my Lance HS. I now get 18 with my popup, sometimes 19. I average 21 empty so it's quite a savings in diesel fuel on a long trip and handling is much better because the camper is low profile. My Lance was always a handfull in cross winds on my F350. I don't even know the popup is on the truck unless I glance in the mirrors.

Myself, I prefer the pop;up over the hardside.