bka0721 wrote:twodownzero wrote:I certainly agree with everything you say here. But you didn’t say that in your first post. While you are perfectly in your right to say and post whatever you would like, but when you use a fully dipped paint brush to paint a broad point, you should expect myself and others to point out your “failure to communicate.” (Boy I love that line from Cool Hand Luke).
I've only quoted part of your post because I agree with much of it, but I want to point out where we differ.
Tread design is only part of the discussion. If it weren't, tire companies would make mud tires out of very hard compounds and they would last just as long as any other tire, or at least almost as long (the void ratio on a mud tire is going to increase wear even all else equal). Instead, they make mud tires out of softer compounds. Why is that? It's because they know that those who really desire an aggressive tire desire the traction that a softer compound provides.
A medium duty tire cannot over this. Because of the heavy load rating, they have to be careful to assure that the tire can handle the rated load. That means that the tread design has to favor load capacity first and traction second. In other words, a tire with an inch high of squirmy, soft tread isn't going to be rated load range G or H. The engineers know they're trading off some traction for weight capacity and safety, but they have to do it to design a tire for a tow truck or a garbage truck--a vehicle that will be operated under heavy load day in and day out.
That's not to say there aren't some good tread designs to be found in 19.5s and even 22.5 for that matter. But the primary purpose for those tires is carrying a load first and traction second.
I had been racing cars for over 20 years, grading compounds, working with Ford on their performance vehicles development you certainly have and had my attention with tires, their compositions and handling. But, Truck Camper people tend to push the limits in how and where they use their rigs. For the most part, they do it safely and come home safe, albeit a few scratches along their camper sides. I hope you continue to post here, but understand that there is a wealth of experience and users out there that are happy to share their experiences and knowledge. I hope you do too, albeit with less paint on your brush and more substance.
b
twodownzero wrote:I certainly agree with everything you say here. But you didn’t say that in your first post. While you are perfectly in your right to say and post whatever you would like, but when you use a fully dipped paint brush to paint a broad point, you should expect myself and others to point out your “failure to communicate.” (Boy I love that line from Cool Hand Luke).
I've only quoted part of your post because I agree with much of it, but I want to point out where we differ.
Tread design is only part of the discussion. If it weren't, tire companies would make mud tires out of very hard compounds and they would last just as long as any other tire, or at least almost as long (the void ratio on a mud tire is going to increase wear even all else equal). Instead, they make mud tires out of softer compounds. Why is that? It's because they know that those who really desire an aggressive tire desire the traction that a softer compound provides.
A medium duty tire cannot over this. Because of the heavy load rating, they have to be careful to assure that the tire can handle the rated load. That means that the tread design has to favor load capacity first and traction second. In other words, a tire with an inch high of squirmy, soft tread isn't going to be rated load range G or H. The engineers know they're trading off some traction for weight capacity and safety, but they have to do it to design a tire for a tow truck or a garbage truck--a vehicle that will be operated under heavy load day in and day out.
That's not to say there aren't some good tread designs to be found in 19.5s and even 22.5 for that matter. But the primary purpose for those tires is carrying a load first and traction second.
twodownzero wrote:AH64ID wrote:
I have, they do grow quite a bit but not triple, at least not in my experience.
Maybe you don't realize just how short the actual contact patch of a fully aired up tire is? It's only a few inches. Perhaps only 2 inches in some cases! Airing down makes a huge difference.bka0721 wrote:
In my opinion is that 19.5”tires do (depending on tread design). But I would encourage those that have them, to test their limits and their own abilities before committing to any road surface you may encounter. But leave the truck on the side of the road, or at home, because you have 19.5” tires mounted and have been toldthey should only be used to drive to the place where the paved road ends, not a chance. Push the envelope, travel the road less traveled!
b
I've only quoted part of your post because I agree with much of it, but I want to point out where we differ.
Tread design is only part of the discussion. If it weren't, tire companies would make mud tires out of very hard compounds and they would last just as long as any other tire, or at least almost as long (the void ratio on a mud tire is going to increase wear even all else equal). Instead, they make mud tires out of softer compounds. Why is that? It's because they know that those who really desire an aggressive tire desire the traction that a softer compound provides.
A medium duty tire cannot over this. Because of the heavy load rating, they have to be careful to assure that the tire can handle the rated load. That means that the tread design has to favor load capacity first and traction second. In other words, a tire with an inch high of squirmy, soft tread isn't going to be rated load range G or H. The engineers know they're trading off some traction for weight capacity and safety, but they have to do it to design a tire for a tow truck or a garbage truck--a vehicle that will be operated under heavy load day in and day out.
That's not to say there aren't some good tread designs to be found in 19.5s and even 22.5 for that matter. But the primary purpose for those tires is carrying a load first and traction second.Buzzcut1 wrote:
Where I went on this trip was fairly tame some 1' to 1.5 foot deep creek crossings and wet dirt fireroads with some 10% grades. Its amazing how muctch traction you get with 4000 pounds in the bed and a heavy diesel up front in 4x4.
Those pictures look like a decent road. I'd tackle that in any 4x4 with any tires, no problem.
I know there are always limits to where we would want to take our rigs with the campers installed, but some here have posted pictures of their rigs on much rougher roads than that, and that is what I had in mind when comparing 19.5s.
Many trucks with factory 19.5 tires are working in the oil fields every day, so it's not like they are totally worthless on soft surfaces; they're not. But I think most here would rather have a grippier E rated tire than a G or H tire when the road really gets sloppy.
AH64ID wrote:
I have, they do grow quite a bit but not triple, at least not in my experience.
bka0721 wrote:
In my opinion is that 19.5”tires do (depending on tread design). But I would encourage those that have them, to test their limits and their own abilities before committing to any road surface you may encounter. But leave the truck on the side of the road, or at home, because you have 19.5” tires mounted and have been toldthey should only be used to drive to the place where the paved road ends, not a chance. Push the envelope, travel the road less traveled!
b
Buzzcut1 wrote:
Where I went on this trip was fairly tame some 1' to 1.5 foot deep creek crossings and wet dirt fireroads with some 10% grades. Its amazing how muctch traction you get with 4000 pounds in the bed and a heavy diesel up front in 4x4.
