Quality

Cummins12V98 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The problem with the 05 Ram we recently purchased is the entire top of the dashboard from the middle to the passenger side is entirely gone due to the dash cracking and falling apart. The 07 Ram is ok but has a carpet liner on the dash it's entire life.

I would have to say that CR reports appear more accurate to me than JD Powers per our experience.

WHAT?????? You own a RAM??????

Since it's not April 1, you must be converting him!

Quality is often in the eye of the beholder. What I may consider a mark of quality in an item may not be for another persons needs or uses.

That being said, CR surveys have a tendency to be severely skewed. They never publish the number of surveys they got from users. So if they get 10 surveys in and 6 have bad comments, then that particular vehicle will be deemed "unreliable". Take the same 6 bad surveys in a pool of 1000 and you now have a "reliable" vehicle with anecdotal issues.

FWIW, in my neck of the woods (eastern Canada), I see a lot of the big 3 pick-ups, and most are not rusted out. Unless it's 15+ years old with obvious commercial use.

FishOnOne wrote:
The problem with the 05 Ram we recently purchased is the entire top of the dashboard from the middle to the passenger side is entirely gone due to the dash cracking and falling apart. The 07 Ram is ok but has a carpet liner on the dash it's entire life.

I would have to say that CR reports appear more accurate to me than JD Powers per our experience.

WHAT?????? You own a RAM??????

FishOnOne wrote:
The problem with the 05 Ram we recently purchased is the entire top of the dashboard from the middle to the passenger side is entirely gone due to the dash cracking and falling apart. The 07 Ram is ok but has a carpet liner on the dash it's entire life.

I would have to say that CR reports appear more accurate to me than JD Powers per our experience.

HMMMM My 98 with nearly 400K has the original dash and is in perfect condition.

The problem with the 05 Ram we recently purchased is the entire top of the dashboard from the middle to the passenger side is entirely gone due to the dash cracking and falling apart. The 07 Ram is ok but has a carpet liner on the dash it's entire life.

I would have to say that CR reports appear more accurate to me than JD Powers per our experience.

The initial satisfaction survey obviously has limitations but so do ones for more experienced vehicles. Does anyone really care how my 2003 E350 held up? I really doubt it. How about my 1994 Nissan pickup? Does it have anything in common with current vehicles?

Regardless, Kia has shown some tremendous quality improvements in the last 10 years and this survey shows it. If they ever start making a real pickup I will take a hard look at it. My 2011 Optima is the most reliable vehicle that I have ever owned. It has been back to the shop less than my 2016 pickup has. All that I have done to it is 2 sets of tires, 1 battery, wipers and oil changes. The other companies had better sit up and take notice. Additionally, they have a big factory in Georgia and get a lot of their parts from a plant in Alabama.

BenK wrote:
Too many have become part of the "Throw Away Society...TAS" and not many keep their vehicles over a decade...IMHO pickups has a larger percentage, but they too now have way more TAS folks these days

IMHO...leasing a big part of this.

Plus it is very subjective and largely based on brand loyalty...blind loyalty IMHO...along with OEMs products come and go. Both to be killed off for some reason, or get better or worse over time and that cycle repeats often...

Nothing is perfect, as it also applies to me and everyone else out there...

I don't give a hoot about WiFi/Bluetooth....nor much of the highly integrated computerized systems in my vehicles. Okay, maybe a new sedan noodling (divorce had her get all 3 sedans...I took the trucks and my 2 seater had before the marriage)

What's this have to do with vehicles rusting out? If it's rusted out and goes to the scrap heap, that's our new "tas" at work?
Nope sounds more like a product of the DoT and overzealous road salting!

IdaD wrote:

travelnutz wrote:
The junkyards are filled with rusted out etc Dodge/Ram pickups, more than there's GM or Ford pickup trucks in them according the salvage reports of types of vehicles that are in their yards. Add in that Dodge/Ram is one of the 3 BIG 3 yet only has sold 1 out of 7 of the new pickups average for over 3 decade or more. the big 3 have sold.

This was in an written about in Automotive News and the Detroit Free Press less than a year ago now. Common knowledge here in the Midwest and most of the east coast as seeing is what's there. Very poor resale values. In the Midwest, it's almost strange to see a Dodge or Ram pickup that is 5 years old or more without rust already showing on the bottom of the doors and/or the bed area by the rear wheel wells or on the outside fender joints/ around wheel openings. So unlike either GM or Ford pickup trucks which seldom have any rust at all showing before they are 10+ years old.

What good is a rusted out truck body sheet metal, usually cracked/crumbled I/P, and shredded passenger seats etc even if the engine or transmission still will run with needed repairs? It's the wrapper the entire driveline is included in that makes it a usable vehicle on the roads!

That's a big part of what "Reliability" means and only is revealed after miles are on the odometer and/or time has passed. BTW, a lot more by far people and trucks are owned and driven in the eastern half of the USA than west of the Rockies and it's the same for Canada too.

I agree that the western US is far nicer than anything in the midwest or east coast. Better scenery and outdoor access, nicer weather, fewer people...it isn't even a contest. That was your point, right?

Yes that's what he was totally saying......and also vehicles don't rust out near as quick out here!
(I think fishinone got ahold of travelnutzs password....)

What is "quality"? The question was raised in my world about 20 years ago when I first became a computer software tester. In our introductory class, we spent almost 2 hours discussing what "quality" actually meant. We all had to come up with definitions. Then we pooled our answers and came up with a definition. The definition went something like this (it's been a long time ago):

Quality: When a product functions the way it was designed to do.

Example: A child's chair is designed to support the weight of a child (say ... under 75 pounds). It is designed not to tip over and when used correctly is a safe place for a child to sit.

Now, if a 500 pound gorilla sits on that same chair and the chair collapses, does that mean the chair was not built with "quality"? Many would argue the chair was inferior. No, not at all. It was designed and built to withstand a child that weighs 75 pounds or less. It was never intended to support 500 pounds, and a gorilla at that!

Same is true with our vehicles. If the vehicle is built to the manufactures specs, and it meets their requirements, then it's built with "quality".

The problem is, too many have their own definition of what "quality" should be. They want to use the chair for the 500 pound gorilla and then cry foul when the chair breaks.

In my opinion, "opinions" of what vehicle "quality" are suppose to be are just that... "opinions." Figure out what the manufacture originally intended, and then see if it measures up to that test!

(and that's the approach to software testing also ... does it measure up to the requirements of the code? If so, it's quality.) It might not be satisfactorily functional for the end-user, but that does not mean it does not have "quality." It means the end user had different expectations that the product was originally designed for).

Hmmm... Maybe a different link will work.