Ram 1500 diesel review

HP is a measure of how much torque an engine is producing at a certain RPM. Below 3500 RPM the diesel is making more HP than the Hemi. Above 3500 RPM the Hemi makes more HP. In the same gear, below 3500 RPM, the diesel will put more torque to the ground than the Hemi.

Yes, of course. But I'm saying this isn't a terribly meaningful comparison, because when power is needed on the road, they won't be in the same gear. Gear selection is a critical part of putting power to the road. Why would anyone select a gear that doesn't provide the needed power?

The two vehicles will drive very differently and because most driving is done at engine speeds below 3500 RPM, many will find the diesel more satisfying to drive, even though it isn't capable of the same all out performance.

I'd agree that's true of those with downshiftaphobia, yes. But while most driving is below 3500 RPM, it's also true that most driving doesn't require a lot of power. The real difference surfaces when that extra power is needed. One drivetrain can downshift to get it, the other can't.

wilber1 wrote:
No one would argue that the diesel is the more powerful of the two....

I wrote:
I assume you mis-typed here. If not, then I would argue.

wilber1 wrote:
Read it again.

I did read it again. The 3.0L diesel makes 240 hp, the 5.7L Hemi makes 395 hp. I acknowledge that power doesn't exist across the entire RPM range, but it's just not accurate to say the diesel is the more powerful of the two.

-- Rob

To help illustrate wilber's point, I made a comparison on another forum showing the difference in HP generation between Diesel and Gas motors. As you can see, both 6.7's produce far more horsepower at far lower RPM's while the gas motors take a while before they hit their horsepower band. So say you need 200 HP to pull a trailer, the Diesels have that power available at 1500rpm up to their respective redlines. The ecoboost makes that power at 2500rpm while the 6.2L ford takes all the way until 3100 rpm before it's making that power. This is all assuming a 1:1 engine to drive ratio. Gearing makes up for these deficiencies though but it just shows shy Diesels have so much more oooomph!

Trying to stick a google sheet in here:


If that doesn't work, here's a link to a PDF of it:HP Spreadsheet

bimbert84 wrote:
wilber1,

I say it doesn't matter because if torque is what you want, you need to be running in the lowest possible gear to get maximum torque multiplication. And that gear sure isn't going to leave the engine spinning at only 2000 RPM. So it doesn't make much sense to compare the two at the same RPM. A much better comparison is given the same road speed, which can put more torque to the ground? After all, that's what matters out on the road.

I know you understand how all this works so I won't rehash it here. But the article made a factually inaccurate statement and I was just pointing it out.

HP is a measure of how much torque an engine is producing at a certain RPM. Below 3500 RPM the diesel is making more HP than the Hemi. Above 3500 RPM the Hemi makes more HP. In the same gear, below 3500 RPM, the diesel will put more torque to the ground than the Hemi. The two vehicles will drive very differently and because most driving is done at engine speeds below 3500 RPM, many will find the diesel more satisfying to drive, even though it isn't capable of the same all out performance.

I assume you mis-typed here. If not, then I would argue.

Read it again.

Vulcaneer wrote:

Yeah...but how much torque does the Hemi develop at 2000 RPM?

I wrote:
I don't know, and it doesn't really matter. What matters is how much torque it can put to the wheels, and to maximize that, you need power.

wilber1 wrote:
Actually it does matter.... the RPM an engine makes its torque does make a difference.

wilber1,

I say it doesn't matter because if torque is what you want, you need to be running in the lowest possible gear to get maximum torque multiplication. And that gear sure isn't going to leave the engine spinning at only 2000 RPM. So it doesn't make much sense to compare the two at the same RPM. A much better comparison is given the same road speed, which can put more torque to the ground? After all, that's what matters out on the road.

I know you understand how all this works so I won't rehash it here. But the article made a factually inaccurate statement and I was just pointing it out.

wilber1 wrote:
No one would argue that the diesel is the more powerful of the two....

I assume you mis-typed here. If not, then I would argue.

-- Rob

Terryallan wrote:
Looking at the numbers. they were not that impressive.

No? Find another 5600+ vehicle that gets 24 mpg average.

A Range Rover weights that much and you're luck to get 15 mpg mixed...

I think diesel is a good value prop. I need a TV but I don't want a truck. At the end it boils down to a Touareg, Grand Cherokee, or the truck that's the most carlike (or an additional vehicle).

I agree ^^.

I think this little diesel will be popular with those who are looking for really good mpg, but don't want to drive a small car or CUV.

As far as this engine being a tow monster, I say look elsewhere. It will do a decent job with lighter loads, but it won't be good for heavier loads (like in the 9 to 10k range). Personal opinion here, but I think that's good marketing. Generally speaking, buyers of 1500 series trucks buy them as the family car, and want the ability to tow a utility trailer, boat, watercraft, ATV, etc every once in a while. Most don't look to them to haul a big RV. That is why RAM makes 2500 and 3500 series truck.

This discussion has repeated hundreds of times ... there is no simple better or worse, the drivetrains will have different characteristics depending on the hp and tq curves. Non-turbo engines run at higher RPM, generally, than turbo engines to produce the same work. Often turbo engines feel quicker off a complete stop because the power becomes available earlier. With a non turbo engine, if trans shifts early or you're afraid to rev it, you'll never benefit from the numbers on the spec sheet.

Our CR-V for example feels pretty lame. It's supposed to be at, like, 170 hp. in fact
Torque: 161 ft-lbs. @ 4400 rpm
Horsepower: 180 hp @ 6800 rpm

It says NOTHING about how the engine performs at any other RPM points. And for a reason, there is NOTHING going on below 4k rpm :)

Anyways, choice is good. Pick the right vehicle for your use case. There will be no single value in the spec sheet that makes or breaks the vehicle.

I think in a head to head tow off, the Hemi would out perform (stopwatch wise) the 3.0L diesel all other things being equal. Similar tq but the Hemi has way more hp.

bimbert84 wrote:

autoguide.com wrote:
...in a pickup truck, it's the torque that gets the work done.

I wrote:
Uh oh, here we go again: somebody else trying to redefine the laws of physics....

Vulcaneer wrote:

Yeah...but how much torque does the Hemi develop at 2000 RPM?

I don't know, and it doesn't really matter. What matters is how much torque it can put to the wheels, and to maximize that, you need power.

My point was that no misinformed internet article is going to change that.

-- Rob

Actually it does matter. No one would argue that the diesel is the more powerful of the two but the RPM an engine makes its torque does make a difference. Someone else said, we quote HP but drive torque and for most of our driving that is true.

The Hemi doesn't start to make more power until it gets above 3500 RPM so below 3500 RPM the diesel can make more HP than the Hemi. This is why people who own small displacement diesels are always saying they really like the way they drive, in spite of the fact they don't have impressive HP numbers.