Forum Discussion
182 Replies
- 2009+ Rams have the lowest payload in class, Ford/GM the highest.
The Ram 3.0L diesel and Ford Ecoboost comparisons will be plentiful. I like the Ecobosot as well. If Ford would have put it in the Expy with 1700+ pounds of payload, I'd have one. The Ecoboost will be quicker accelerating, but use more fuel. By how much and cost differences? We shall see. APT wrote:
Besides ROI analysis, driving a vehicle with peak torque in the 1500-2500rpm range is unquantifiable. The engine is nearly always in it's peak ready to go. No downshift, not delay, just go.
Cough Ecoboost, Cough. :)APT wrote:
I love my diesel car and would love a diesel truck and TV. I am mixed on this new Ram. I suspect that 1500 pounds of payload is not a crew cab 4WD, which will be more like 1000 pounds in a Laramie trim I prefer. Realistically, this Ram should get about 25mpg in mixed daily driving vs. 16mpg of the Hemi.
ROI is difficult to estimate as no one knows what residual value will be in 2-10 years. No one knows what fuel costs will be in a month, year, or 10. But for the last 15 years, diesels in the 3/4+ ton trucks have held their value more than the gassers. The upgrade cost was about $5k new 10 years ago, and now about $9k. The resale value on uses 2013 trucks shows at least a $5k spread between gas and diesel.
Besides ROI analysis, driving a vehicle with peak torque in the 1500-2500rpm range is unquantifiable. The engine is nearly always in it's peak ready to go. No downshift, not delay, just go.
Payload on my 2011 Silverado Crew Cab is 1447pounds w/the 5.3 V8 2WD.Slowmover wrote:
I've averaged 21-mpg FOR ALL MILES in my (now 200k mile) 2004 DODGE CTD. CIty and country, solo, and am just above 15-mpg towing. At $4/gl diesel, that's 15 cents per mile, solo, and 25-cpm, towing. I don't fall below 24-mpg highway solo (loaded or empty, traffic or no traffic, rain, major metro areas, etc. Have seen 27-mpg numerous times) and am closer to 16-mpg with a TT that has yet to have all bugs worked out in re alignment, etc. I bring this up as it may be a similar set of numbers for the new truck.
What is your towing cost per mile?
Technically your towing cost per mile includes every piece of the cost to tow. That includes the original cost of the vehicle, all maintenance, fuel, tires, etc etc.
You are making reference to your fuel cost per mile. Those are 2 radically different numbers.
Obviously you get better mileage in your truck, but the upfront cost and maintenance costs are much larger than a gas engine that gets worse economy. Chances are that at the 200K mile mark you might have surpassed the gas engine with total towing cost, because the gas engine owner probably sold the truck and bought a new one. I've never owned a diesel and I know they run a long time, but I've owned a couple trucks and around 100,000 miles things besides the engine start showing wear and need to be replaced. Steering components, exhaust, interior wear, suspension items, brake lines, etc etc. The nickles and dimes add up. Perhaps it is slightly cheaper to hold on to that truck with 200K miles and replace all those items, but I would rather sell the truck around 90K miles and start over new. New technology, higher power engine, new interior, new suspension, new exhuast, etc etc.
Not debating which method is better, just pointing out that relatively few "original owners" own the truck long enough to see the total cost per mile drop down that low.- I love my diesel car and would love a diesel truck and TV. I am mixed on this new Ram. I suspect that 1500 pounds of payload is not a crew cab 4WD, which will be more like 1000 pounds in a Laramie trim I prefer. Realistically, this Ram should get about 25mpg in mixed daily driving vs. 16mpg of the Hemi.
ROI is difficult to estimate as no one knows what residual value will be in 2-10 years. No one knows what fuel costs will be in a month, year, or 10. But for the last 15 years, diesels in the 3/4+ ton trucks have held their value more than the gassers. The upgrade cost was about $5k new 10 years ago, and now about $9k. The resale value on uses 2013 trucks shows at least a $5k spread between gas and diesel.
Besides ROI analysis, driving a vehicle with peak torque in the 1500-2500rpm range is unquantifiable. The engine is nearly always in it's peak ready to go. No downshift, not delay, just go. Mike Up wrote:
gmcsmoke wrote:
Actually in some states you need a NCDL for GCWR over 26k.
NCDL = North Carolina Driver's License
NCDL = None Commercial Driver's License or standard Driver's License
You may have to get standard license endorsements but that would only apply if you reside in the state that requires it, as other states would not offer such an endorsement.
A NON-CDL is not a class C drivers license. A Class A or B NON-CDL is required when you operate a vehicle greater than 26k in single or combination in certain states.- EIGHT pages !!!!
So glad not looking for anything new, nor do I ever follow the herd
on anything like this
The only reason am interested in sales numbers is for the masses to
pull down the prices for my badge and model lineup. So that my parts
costs have volume... - Were I in the market for a new TV then I'd be all over media and company-provided information on this truck.
When I put together the rig I have (third TT of the same brand) there was no question that the TV would be a DODGE Cummins Turbodiesel as those in commercial service had proved them out long before that. Manual transmission. 2WD for simplicity and better road performance (IFS, plus rack & pinion steering).
What maybe some of you are misssing is the the TTs you choose are the weak link. Junk, from a design and longevity standpoint. An aero TT of lightweight construction and low center-of-gravity is hands down better in all respects of money paid and value received. A heavy, boxy TT just takes more power to move down the road at any speed, and crappy handling is its own penalty. I needn't say much about a TT that won't last as long as the finance note.
Start with a clean sheet in thinking. My current TT is 35-feet in length and has a GVWR of 9000-lbs. I don't have a "good" TW yet, but the payload capacity of that new diesel 1/2T will probably handlie it just fine.
If, indeed, the MPG numbers are reasonable, then the truck will work for many folks . . and even more for those who understand that the money ought to be in the TT more so than in the TV (when buying brand new). The TT matters more than the TV it is pulled by.
I've averaged 21-mpg FOR ALL MILES in my (now 200k mile) 2004 DODGE CTD. CIty and country, solo, and am just above 15-mpg towing. At $4/gl diesel, that's 15 cents per mile, solo, and 25-cpm, towing. I don't fall below 24-mpg highway solo (loaded or empty, traffic or no traffic, rain, major metro areas, etc. Have seen 27-mpg numerous times) and am closer to 16-mpg with a TT that has yet to have all bugs worked out in re alignment, etc. I bring this up as it may be a similar set of numbers for the new truck.
Spec the TT and TV to work well together. A half ton that is spec'd right for solo duty might be just the ticket for a family that tries to vacation as often as possible. Or, for fulltimers trying to keep the cost of LONG TERM operation as low as possible.
The "average" 4WD, auto trans CTD owners tend to report an average of 15-mpg. At that $4/gl fuel cost they used an additional 3,800-gls. Or, spent an additional $15,000 on fuel to cover the same distance. At $1,500/yr that's a lot of vacation money annually. (And even more to be found in judicious use. . but few takers on that approach).
I agree that the latest DI and TC gasoline engines make this more difficult than before. But that diesel high compression is sure hard to beat on a day-in, day-out basis.
Local diesel is now at $3.60/gl. At 16-mpg on the flats I could see 22.5/cents-per-mile. $225 in fuel to travel 1,000-miles.
That's the number to look at: Fuel cost per mile of operation. But do it with a better TT.
What is your towing cost per mile?
The big piece is the TT. Not the TV.
Change that and look at these modern TV's the "right" way. Emissions and mileage increases necessary make RV'ng a new/old game again (as the 1950's cars didn't have too much power either . . so an aero TT of light construction meant a "larger" TT could be had).
. - Recreational vehicle (RV) operators are exempt when driving an RV for non-commercial purposes. This exemption includes 2-axle rental trucks and horse trailers.
There are some states that do require a higher class DL for NON COMMERCIAL vehicles but they are not a CDL.
Don Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Pure BS dude, you do not need a CDL unless you are involved in commerce, as in "for hire"
First of all the 50 states and however many territories each have their own CDL rules, so the best thing is to check your state's DMV.
But, from the Feds:
FMCSA CDL Regulations
Drivers are required to obtain and hold a CDL if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce if they drive a vehicle that meets any of the classifications of a CMV described below.
Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.
Many states have RV exemptions and other exemptions but, say you are working for a landscaper and towing that backhoe - you may just need a CDL.
No matter what truck you buy it's best to see if you need any licensing endorsements.you meant Craptor right, weak ass frame that bends and crushes the cab. Total POS
Well when you get air at high rates of speed I guess anything will bend. And if you look at it from a physics perspective I'd rather have the frame bend than put those forces into mjy body. The same can be said about any truck - GM, Ford, Chrysler.
Once again, Ford paved the way and Chrysler follows....LMAO and Ford is the quality leader??? NOT they are only known for having the highest warranty denials. At least GM stood behind their diesels unlike Ford. BTW can't wait to hear your BS******when Ford/GM start putting their 9 and 10 speed transmissions in their vehicles in late 2015 or 2016. Spin it fan boy
Pick your source and for the most part Ford has been on top of Chrysler for, well, probably 20 years as far as long term dependability. That's what quality is. Chrysler has never been about quality but gimmicks. Even "Hemi" for Hemispherical combustion chamber was not a Chrysler invention - it dates to the early 1900's in Belgium.
And I still don't think we need 9 or 10 speed transmissions, regardless of who makes them. The returns are most likely not there.
