RAM EcoDiesel a Flop for Towing

I don't know about it being a flop. I was at an FLW event today and there were a few pro fishermen towing with them. They seemed happy with them. I'd love to have one for my chores.

Bionic Man wrote:
So, for the record, the speed limit on that stretch of road is 60 MPH, not 65.

That was a mistype on my part. I fixed it.

Bionic Man wrote:
Here, the truck that can maintain the posted maximum allowed speed with it's rated capacity virtually every where else is vilified because it is 10 MPH under the speed limit (maximum allowed legal speed) on a short, extreme tretch of road.

It is not just on this stretch of road that the Ecodiesel has issues.

"While ascending the steepest areas on the route, which included the 6 percent grade of the Grapevine, we had our foot to the floor and the V-6 was spinning at 4,000 rpm for several minutes in order to maintain 55 mph."

http://www.fourwheeler.com/vehicle-reviews/2014-ram-1500-ecodiesel-review-towing-and-mpg-fuel-economy/#ixzz3VdeKsUWK

"The only place where the trucks showed any sign of weakness was climbing the nearly 7 percent final grade on the push to 5,000 feet of elevation. With the accelerator stapled to the floor, the truck’s speed dropped off to 53 mph, and engine temperature climbed to an almost alarming 244 degrees. Thankfully, as we crested the summit, the engine temperature returned to normal and we never experienced any other engine temperature issues during the remainder of the test."

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/dodge/1403_2014_ram_1500_ecodiesel_vs_2500_sibling_rivalry/trailer_towing.html#ixzz3Vdeyx8G4

It seems towing up inclines in general are getting the better of this engine. This is why I think Ram should lower its tow rating.

This made for a great discussion though. So long as things remain civilized. I think this was a great discussion without diving deep into fanboy remarks and raging insults. Trollers succeed only when things take a turn for the worst. But then the thread is still young.

nomad297 wrote:
Here's the lowdown.

Bruce

Folks, this guy (the OP) is a great fisherman.

He threw this lure out and caught all you suckers,
never even had to come back and wiggle the bait...... :B

I think I overheard him, just before he posted, say to his partner,

"watch how few words I can type and catch all these dudes".. :W

So, for the record, the speed limit on that stretch of road is 60 MPH, not 65.

I often see members who routinely claim that they won't go above 55 MPH on the interstate - where they are 20 MPH under the posted speed limit. They are almost universally supported on their ability to drive that speed, mile after mile. Here, the truck that can maintain the posted maximum allowed speed with it's rated capacity virtually every where else is vilified because it is 10 MPH under the speed limit (maximum allowed legal speed) on a short, extreme tretch of road.

Personally, I would rather be able to tow faster over the passes, but there is always a trade off - namely MPG. The EcoDiesel is clearly marketed for those that think MPG is more important than MPH.

jus2shy wrote:

Fair enough, I see your point. However, it is only recently that turbocharged trucks have entered the scene. I think there will be a magnitude change in expectation for towing. Remember, prior to the ecoboosts, all half-tons did slow-down at Ike when towing at maximum weight. Would you still have that de-rating expectation if the ecoboosts never existed and all trucks suffered the same slowing-down issue still?

I did think a lot of tow ratings were rather inflated long before the Ecoboost came to market. However, the Ecoboost did raise the bar and what was acceptable is no longer acceptable anymore. That is just like back in the day a "half ton" only having a payload of half a ton was acceptable, and today it is not. Or how just having a driver and passenger airbag would have given you a 5 star crash test rating 20 years ago, but now it takes more than that to get a 5 star crash test rating. Things change and they should change for the better. This is why I expect more, and what used to be acceptable is not acceptable anymore.

jus2shy wrote:
Even today, HD's are expected to slow down when faced with a steep climb and loaded to full capacity. What SAE J2807 attempts to do is set a universal expectation for minimum Tow performance at maximum load ratings for certain given grades (accelerating, stopping and handling). If things were done your way, all the HD trucks would not be able to meet the 30,000+ lbs tow rating that those duallies have. They would be universally be de-rated. It's also kinda hard to just say "Keep up with the speed limit at whatever grade".

That is fine, I don't think trucks like that should be towing 30,000 lbs in the first place. That should be left to medium duty commercial trucks. This "30,000 lbs towing battle" that Ford and Ram are doing is senseless which is why I applaud GM for staying out of it. Also, the J2807 only sets the maximum a manufacturer can rate its truck, it says nothing about rating it below that rating. Case in point is the two trucks in question. It is blatantly clear that the 2.7L Ecoboost can tow more than the Ram Ecodiesel going by the J2807. However, Ford set its tow rating lower than what Ram did with the 3.0L Ecodiesel. Why is that? Maybe Ford and Ram have a difference of opinion on what is "acceptable" when towing.

I am also not a fan of the J2807 either. I think it should be more strict on it speed requirements and bring them up to a more acceptable speed limit like at least 55 mph.

jus2shy wrote:
So where to draw the line? 1/2 tons versus 3/4 and up tons? It's obvious that this RAM would not meet your towing minimum, but for the fuel miser that doesn't care about slowing down, it may meet theirs. People vote with their wallets and as long as people want a certain product (or not) the companies will respond appropriately.

I draw the line with any manufacturer that rates their non commercial truck to tow more than what it can safely tow at a reasonable speed on any and every US highway. If it can't at least keep up with the trailering speed limit, then the tow rating needs to be lowered.

carringb wrote:
Would you apply this logic to commercial trucks as well? I mean, why not? They do many more miles than RV towing trucks do. I imagine we would have to start equipping commercial trucks with dual engines, or maybe even turbine drives, to be able to pull legal weights (105,000 pounds in most western states) up 7% grades which are also common out here. Or maybe they should lower truck weight limits so we can have 2-3x the trucks on the road, just so some cars aren't momentarily inconvenienced.

I don't care about what a commercial truck does because I don't or will ever drive a commercial truck. Also, most people that drive commercial trucks don't own them, their company that they work for do and they probably have a different criteria for what their truck needs to do. If you want to put apply my expectations to commercial trucks then go ahead, but I don't care about them since I will never drive them.

ShinerBock wrote:

...snip...

This is about my expectations and how I believe any non commercial truck should be able to do the speed limit when towing their max rated weight up any hill in the US or have its tow rating lowered to a weight it can.

Fair enough, I see your point. However, it is only recently that turbocharged trucks have entered the scene. I think there will be a magnitude change in expectation for towing. Remember, prior to the ecoboosts, all half-tons did slow-down at Ike when towing at maximum weight. Would you still have that de-rating expectation if the ecoboosts never existed and all trucks suffered the same slowing-down issue still?

Even today, HD's are expected to slow down when faced with a steep climb and loaded to full capacity. What SAE J2807 attempts to do is set a universal expectation for minimum Tow performance at maximum load ratings for certain given grades (accelerating, stopping and handling). If things were done your way, all the HD trucks would not be able to meet the 30,000+ lbs tow rating that those duallies have. They would be universally be de-rated. It's also kinda hard to just say "Keep up with the speed limit at whatever grade". Speed limits and grade combinations vary... a lot. So SAE J2807 specifies specific routes and the expected tow performance of that given route. For a quick summary of what it is, here's the clicky and another good link to the specifics Clicky2

So where to draw the line? 1/2 tons versus 3/4 and up tons? It's obvious that this RAM would not meet your towing minimum, but for the fuel miser that doesn't care about slowing down, it may meet theirs. People vote with their wallets and as long as people want a certain product (or not) the companies will respond appropriately.

APT wrote:

325hp vs. 240hp.

No one expects the Ram Ecodiesel to be the quickest. It offers a balance of power/fuel efficiency/cost that is unique. If that doesn't meet your needs, move on.

I made my response and moved on, but people keep quoted me in response to my statements so I ma defending them. Although I am not talking about it being the quickest, I am talking about being able to tow its rated when doing at least the speed limit or have its tow rating lowered to a tow rating it can do the speed limit with.

Let me take the brands out of this equation.

Truck A with a higher tow rating was not able to keep speed towing 7,200 lbs up that hill, but truck B that has a lower tow rating than truck A does was able to tow the same 7,200 lbs load up the hill keeping the speed limit with ease and not not close to its max rpm. No one thinks that the manufacturer of truck A is a bit optimistic on how much it can reasonably tow?

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Tystevens wrote:

Yep, I'd agree with all of this. I wonder how many trucks can hold 55 mph towing near their max up that hill?

The Ecodiesel didn't hold 55 mph. It was at 50 mph and the speed limit was 60 mph. Although there are plenty of trucks that were able to tow near their max tow rating while keeping within 10 mph of the speed limit going up that hill.


The 2014 F150 3.5 Ecoboost did it towing 10,000 lbs
https://youtu.be/QR-gMWRzvOg

The 2014 F150 Raptor was able to do it towing 8,000 lbs(which is it's max)
https://youtu.be/TeSFP7gyjnk

The 2015 Lincoln Navigator 3.5L Ecoboost was able to do it towing 7,000 lbs
https://youtu.be/Q3fjr1G60G8

The 2015 GMC 3500 6.6L diesel was able to do it towing 15,000 lbs
https://youtu.be/UuRg8ZkrxKM

APT wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
If the F150 2.7L can hold the speed limit then why can't the Ram Ecodiesel?

325hp vs. 240hp.

No one expects the Ram Ecodiesel to be the quickest. It offers a balance of power/fuel efficiency/cost that is unique. If that doesn't meet your needs, move on.

What? The higher horsepower, lower torque engine pulled the load faster? Say it ain't so!

Nothing melted or broke. That's a win!