Seven States to Ban the Sale of Gas Powered Cars in 2035

bikendan wrote:

"becoming"? They already have!
We were native Californians who moved out when we retired. We moved to Washington State, which was Californicated in only 7 years. Now we're in Arizona and hope it doesn't happen here.

Me, too. If it happens here in AZ, we'll move to TX. We spent 2 weeks at Cotton Lane RV Park in Feb. Now we're boondocking near Bouse, AZ. Planning on going to the Lassen area for DW, but will travel in NV as far as we can before entering _____.

Reisender wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

Reisender wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

free radical wrote:

Durb wrote:
Just out: Ford projects it will lose 3 billion dollars on its electrical vehicle production in 2023.

Margins on Rivian's products are at negative sixty-two percent.

It has been three years since Tesla teased their Cybertruck - no trucks yet. Word is market viability is a large concern.

Those that tow may be forced into EVs by a certain date in certain states. However, there may not be anyone manufacturing product for them to buy. Companies cannot eat losses like these and remain viable. .

Yet Tesla makes bilions on their EVs.

Ford just doesnt have the know how to build at profit,why is that?

Check Munro live chanel for answers

Cybrtrk is delayed bc of batery shortage.

1) It took tesla 10 years before they turned a profit. And it's not clear to me if one looks at Teslas net lossed during startup and net profits if the number is yet positive.
2) Ford and other mfg have developed Mfg lines to support volume production, until they hit those volumes profit suffers, not unusual just like early tesla
3) I big part of Tesla profits in the past wasn't from selling cars but from selling the energy credits for the cars to other companies. Even in 2022 Carbon credits were 20% of Tesla profits.

Interesting. So why don’t other companies sell those credits?

companies that HAVE carbon credits sell them to companies that NEED carbon credits to offset carbon emissions. Tesla gets the credits based on the EV's they sell..... and those more than offset the carbon emissions so they have a net positive carbon credit they can sell.
Companies that run solar arrays sell carbon credits, etc.

Ah ok. Wondered how that works. So why don’t other car companies make EV’s and sell credits? Sounds like it’s a profitable business.

since they are also selling cars with ICE they are probably just using the credits internally to offset carbon emissions. In the end, similar net effect on the bottom line

Cptnvideo wrote:
Aren't Washington and Oregon becoming clones of Cali-fornicate-ya?
Asking for a friend.

"becoming"? They already have!
We were native Californians who moved out when we retired. We moved to Washington State, which was Californicated in only 7 years. Now we're in Arizona and hope it doesn't happen here.

ktmrfs wrote:

Reisender wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

free radical wrote:

Durb wrote:
Just out: Ford projects it will lose 3 billion dollars on its electrical vehicle production in 2023.

Margins on Rivian's products are at negative sixty-two percent.

It has been three years since Tesla teased their Cybertruck - no trucks yet. Word is market viability is a large concern.

Those that tow may be forced into EVs by a certain date in certain states. However, there may not be anyone manufacturing product for them to buy. Companies cannot eat losses like these and remain viable. .

Yet Tesla makes bilions on their EVs.

Ford just doesnt have the know how to build at profit,why is that?

Check Munro live chanel for answers

Cybrtrk is delayed bc of batery shortage.

1) It took tesla 10 years before they turned a profit. And it's not clear to me if one looks at Teslas net lossed during startup and net profits if the number is yet positive.
2) Ford and other mfg have developed Mfg lines to support volume production, until they hit those volumes profit suffers, not unusual just like early tesla
3) I big part of Tesla profits in the past wasn't from selling cars but from selling the energy credits for the cars to other companies. Even in 2022 Carbon credits were 20% of Tesla profits.

Interesting. So why don’t other companies sell those credits?

companies that HAVE carbon credits sell them to companies that NEED carbon credits to offset carbon emissions. Tesla gets the credits based on the EV's they sell..... and those more than offset the carbon emissions so they have a net positive carbon credit they can sell.
Companies that run solar arrays sell carbon credits, etc.

Ah ok. Wondered how that works. So why don’t other car companies make EV’s and sell credits? Sounds like it’s a profitable business.

Reisender wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

free radical wrote:

Durb wrote:
Just out: Ford projects it will lose 3 billion dollars on its electrical vehicle production in 2023.

Margins on Rivian's products are at negative sixty-two percent.

It has been three years since Tesla teased their Cybertruck - no trucks yet. Word is market viability is a large concern.

Those that tow may be forced into EVs by a certain date in certain states. However, there may not be anyone manufacturing product for them to buy. Companies cannot eat losses like these and remain viable. .

Yet Tesla makes bilions on their EVs.

Ford just doesnt have the know how to build at profit,why is that?

Check Munro live chanel for answers

Cybrtrk is delayed bc of batery shortage.

1) It took tesla 10 years before they turned a profit. And it's not clear to me if one looks at Teslas net lossed during startup and net profits if the number is yet positive.
2) Ford and other mfg have developed Mfg lines to support volume production, until they hit those volumes profit suffers, not unusual just like early tesla
3) I big part of Tesla profits in the past wasn't from selling cars but from selling the energy credits for the cars to other companies. Even in 2022 Carbon credits were 20% of Tesla profits.

Interesting. So why don’t other companies sell those credits?

companies that HAVE carbon credits sell them to companies that NEED carbon credits to offset carbon emissions. Tesla gets the credits based on the EV's they sell..... and those more than offset the carbon emissions so they have a net positive carbon credit they can sell.
Companies that run solar arrays sell carbon credits, etc.

monkey44 wrote:
Huntindog: And folks talk about towing, which is a real issue for RV'ers ... and no one has considered hauling a 2000 lb Truck Camper (the lightest) or a 3000 lb, or 4000 lb, and a boat, which is the reason a lot of RV'ers choose a TC, as well as for getting in the back-country where most TT's and 5'ers can't get. Everyone has a reason for the RV they choose, but the discussion of EV's runs only around the lightest and smallest RV's or trailers, and how far it can go without a charge.

Regardless how anyone words it, or the technology and engineering we describe, as RV'ers we are a long, long way from the ability to do what we want and why we choose RV over other modes of travel. RV's probably a small percentage of vacation travelers over all, but we do spend plenty of bucks for RV travel and support local and mostly rural areas when we do travel.

Product and produce transport fits in an entirely different category, as do working vehicles - caterpillar and JD tractors come to mind - as well as extended area distribution. Charging delivery trucks (Amazon, FedEx, UPS) may turn an eight hour work day into six productive hours, depending on the route it covers and the charging it requires.

EV's have a place in our culture, and eventually might become more variable in size and capacity, but will never replace energy consumption, they will only displace some methods of obtaining the mobility we want and need.

my dad was a farmer before he got married. he used to tell us about the long hours.
when it is time to plant, it is time to plant.when it is time to harvest.....he spoke of his tractor running 20 hour days. there is no way he would have put up with a electric tractor

ktmrfs wrote:

free radical wrote:

Durb wrote:
Just out: Ford projects it will lose 3 billion dollars on its electrical vehicle production in 2023.

Margins on Rivian's products are at negative sixty-two percent.

It has been three years since Tesla teased their Cybertruck - no trucks yet. Word is market viability is a large concern.

Those that tow may be forced into EVs by a certain date in certain states. However, there may not be anyone manufacturing product for them to buy. Companies cannot eat losses like these and remain viable. .

Yet Tesla makes bilions on their EVs.

Ford just doesnt have the know how to build at profit,why is that?

Check Munro live chanel for answers

Cybrtrk is delayed bc of batery shortage.

1) It took tesla 10 years before they turned a profit. And it's not clear to me if one looks at Teslas net lossed during startup and net profits if the number is yet positive.
2) Ford and other mfg have developed Mfg lines to support volume production, until they hit those volumes profit suffers, not unusual just like early tesla
3) I big part of Tesla profits in the past wasn't from selling cars but from selling the energy credits for the cars to other companies. Even in 2022 Carbon credits were 20% of Tesla profits.

Interesting. So why don’t other companies sell those credits?

free radical wrote:

Durb wrote:
Just out: Ford projects it will lose 3 billion dollars on its electrical vehicle production in 2023.

Margins on Rivian's products are at negative sixty-two percent.

It has been three years since Tesla teased their Cybertruck - no trucks yet. Word is market viability is a large concern.

Those that tow may be forced into EVs by a certain date in certain states. However, there may not be anyone manufacturing product for them to buy. Companies cannot eat losses like these and remain viable. .

Yet Tesla makes bilions on their EVs.

Ford just doesnt have the know how to build at profit,why is that?

Check Munro live chanel for answers

Cybrtrk is delayed bc of batery shortage.

1) It took tesla 10 years before they turned a profit. And it's not clear to me if one looks at Teslas net lossed during startup and net profits if the number is yet positive.
2) Ford and other mfg have developed Mfg lines to support volume production, until they hit those volumes profit suffers, not unusual just like early tesla
3) I big part of Tesla profits in the past wasn't from selling cars but from selling the energy credits for the cars to other companies. Even in 2022 Carbon credits were 20% of Tesla profits.

Huntindog: And folks talk about towing, which is a real issue for RV'ers ... and no one has considered hauling a 2000 lb Truck Camper (the lightest) or a 3000 lb, or 4000 lb, and a boat, which is the reason a lot of RV'ers choose a TC, as well as for getting in the back-country where most TT's and 5'ers can't get. Everyone has a reason for the RV they choose, but the discussion of EV's runs only around the lightest and smallest RV's or trailers, and how far it can go without a charge.

Regardless how anyone words it, or the technology and engineering we describe, as RV'ers we are a long, long way from the ability to do what we want and why we choose RV over other modes of travel. RV's probably a small percentage of vacation travelers over all, but we do spend plenty of bucks for RV travel and support local and mostly rural areas when we do travel.

Product and produce transport fits in an entirely different category, as do working vehicles - caterpillar and JD tractors come to mind - as well as extended area distribution. Charging delivery trucks (Amazon, FedEx, UPS) may turn an eight hour work day into six productive hours, depending on the route it covers and the charging it requires.

EV's have a place in our culture, and eventually might become more variable in size and capacity, but will never replace energy consumption, they will only displace some methods of obtaining the mobility we want and need.

monkey44 wrote:
Hmmm ... people talk about gas vs electric cost to run xxx miles as if it's the end all calculation to consider. That's only ONE thing about owning a vehicle, and certainly not the only cost variable to consider.

We all need to take a step back and look at mining costs, build costs, operating cost, disposal costs at the end of it's useful life. Then compare that cost to fuel driven vehicles that can produce the 'work' that each does comparativey.

We cannot compare total life costs of a small EV car that buzzes around town to work, get groceries and the costs of an EV truck that can tow a 5'er regardless of the time you're willing to spend charging or fueling.

Are you willing to, when comparing costs, add in the cost of cleaning up the oil spills? Or the health care from exposure to exhaust fumes? And how much of the cost of droughts, floods fires and hurricanes?
Are you old enough to remember when the starting battery went bad, you sent it to dump, bought another? Or same with tires? By the time EV batteries are reaching end of service life you can bet industry will be recycling them.