We read an online RV newsletter that comes out each Saturday. Electricity is often a topic of discussion. Today there was a survey to try to tell what percent of readers have experienced some sort of bad connections at RV parks/campgrounds. Note that this survey was probably responded to by RVers in the US so there are plenty of bad power pedestals out there. Every power pedestal should be checked before plugging your rig into it. Campground power pedestal failures (Reader Poll included)http://rvtravel.com/campground-power-pedestal-failures-reader-poll-included/ I have previously mentioned one of many devices that can be used to check pedestal power. I found that these can now be found on Amazon – not sure where else as the company no longer sells retail. - Prime Products 12-4058 AC Power Line Monitor – I bought two of these and made up a device I can use to quickly check both legs of a 50 amp connection. I can also check any other standard connection. This will tell you if polarity is correct and if you have ground – as well as a digital voltage read out. You can plug one in you rig to monitor voltage. We bought one of the ISB Solar Basic Voltage Regulators a few years ago in Mexico. I find I have to use ours in the US as well. You would have to use two of them to regulate both legs of a 50 amp connection. I know there have been any number of products mentioned over the years on this forum but this is the only one I have ever seen which can correct both high and low voltage. They work. I have never been able to find one in the US for a decent price. Corrector of Voltage 8 and 4 KVAhttp://www.isbmex.com/productos/corrector-de-voltaje-8-y-4-kva Rated capacity: 4 KVA and 8 KVA Operating range: 85 V ~ - 147 V ~ Rated voltage: 127 V ~ 60 Hz Maximum current: 30 A (4 KVA), 60 A (8 KVA)

Hi,One of our visitors to Mexico did find a solid state device that was rock solid at 118 volts. I don't remember the name unfortunately.I do love my sola basic and use it often.briansue wrote: We bought one of the ISB Solar Basic Voltage Regulators a few years ago in Mexico. I find I have to use ours in the US as well. I know there have been any number of products mentioned over the years on this forum but this is the only one I have ever seen which can correct both high and low voltage.

We are sold on our ISB Solar Basic, and have to use it in the US, too. Our neighbors in Mexico also like theirs.Our dentist in Mexico also has all of her equipment hooked into one.

NEC code in SD requires bonded ground in pedestals, which means ground and neutral are common. This leads to a false open ground signal in surge protectors and auto formers. A simple test with an ohmmeter verifies continuity between ground, neutral, earth. Open ground signals from surge protectors should certainly be investigated, however, are likely a mis reading of bonded systems.

ground and neutral are common.To the best of my knowledge ground and neutral are always common as they are connected to the same bar in the main panel - I don't know of any other way of doing it.

Here's what I found online at.....https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/1706/is-it-ok-to-have-mixed-grounds-and-neutrals-on-bars-in-a-breaker-boxThis is a response to a question so the person who answers posts the code and then his comments on what the code means. National Electrical Code 2014Article 250 Grounding and BondingII. System Grounding250.24 Grounding Service-Supplied Alternating-Current Systems.(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded service conductor, at each service, in accordance with 250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5).(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the overhead service conductors, service drop, underground service conductors, or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means.This means that the grounded (neutral) from the service must be connected to ground, and that the connection can be made by bonding the neutral bus bar to the grounding electrode.(5) Load-Side Grounding Connections. A grounded conductor shall not be connected to normally non–current carrying metal parts of equipment, to equipment grounding conductor(s), or be reconnected to ground on the load side of the service disconnecting means except as otherwise permitted in this article.This means that the grounded (neutral) conductors should only be grounded at the main service disconnnect.If the main service panel happens to be the same place that the grounded (neutral) conductor is bonded to the grounding electrode, then there is no problem mixing grounds and neutrals on the same bus bar (as long as there is an appropriate number of conductors terminated under each lug). If the two bus bars are not connected; as would be the case anywhere other than the main disconnect (exceptions exist), then you cannot mix them.Click For Full-Size Image.Notice how the grounded, and grounding bus bars are connected in the main service panel. This means that; electrically speaking, they can be considered a single bus bar. Which means that both grounded (neutral), and equipment grounding conductors can be terminated on either bus bar.In the subpanel, the bus bars are kept separate. So grounded (neutral), and equipment grounding conductors cannot be mixed.The wiring issue is not a matter of pride, neatness or whatever... it's a safety issue. :)At the service panel (ONLY AT THE SERVICE PANEL - HUGELY IMPORTANT) the neutral bus bar is bonded to ground. So you should see the ground lead and neutral tied to the same bus (the neutral bus bar). Based on your description it sounds like your panels are wired correctly, but it just doesn't "look right" based on how the other panel is made up. I can completely understand how this can seem incorrect from a common sense perspective.However, any sub-panel after the primary service from there MUST have an isolated neutral. DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT bond neutral to ground in a sub-panel.Why is this? When you tie neutral to earth ground in a subpanel, you're created a potential parallel path for current to return via earth (ground) - so in the event of a fault, your ground conductor has assumed the role of the return path for current and now everything that you've grounded (sub-panel, appliances, metal fixtures, etc) to that sub-panel is now hot.All it takes is a preexisting fault, one rainstorm, or wet feet, whatever... and you touching something energized - and you're doing the 60 cycle shuffle.

Power Pedestal Connections | Good Sam Community

arkie_guide
Explorer
Oct 04, 2017
I have done electrical work for many years and in many different countries of our world. Do not expect wiring in other countries to be according to our standards.I have seen green as a phase conductor in many places so use caution.In others countries they use 220 at receptacles 2 hot wires, no neutral, and a ground wire.Be very careful making electrical changes if your not sure.
reed_cundiff
Explorer
Oct 03, 2017
Mike and Terri Church's book warned against and suggested going solar autonomous if possible.
We had problems in Yucatan several years ago and son (in solar business) and family flew down to spend time with us. He brought down a battey charger so that intermittant power/voltage fluctuations would not damage electronics. He designed and fabricated this into both of our solar/LFP rigs. We just use a 15 amp 120 V power cord to the pedestal which goes to battery charger (which is apparently happy from 60 to 220 V). This supplies 48 V to LFP bank in our 5th wheel and 12 V to LFP bank in Roadtrek.

We have purchased a recepticle/outlet checker. These runs $6 to $10 and let you know if recepticle is safe. A multimeter will give more specific results but these do let one know if outlet is safe: grounded, proper polarity, GFCItest, neutral/ground reversed. Improper wiring can cause a hot chassis resulting in annoying to fatal shocks. Somone on this forum mentioned grounding the chassis with a cable and a copper rod stuck in the ground. We shall be installing this on Roadtrek before we got to Yucatan, southern west coast, and Patzcuaro...

Had hot chassis twice after Patzcuaro and we just relied on solar after that. We had sunny days for six weeks.

Reed and Elaine
reed_cundiff
Explorer
Oct 03, 2017
Mike and Terri Church's book warned against and suggested going solar autonomous if possible.
We had problems in Yucatan several years ago and son (in solar business) and family flew down to spend time with us. He brought down a battey charger so that intermittant power/voltage fluctuations would not damage electronics. He designed and fabricated this into both of our solar/LFP rigs. We just use a 15 amp 120 V power cord to the pedestal which goes to battery charger (which is apparently happy from 60 to 220 V). This supplies 48 V to LFP bank in our 5th wheel and 12 V to LFP bank in Roadtrek.

We have purchased a recepticle/outlet checker. These runs $6 to $10 and let you know if recepticle is safe. A multimeter will give more specific results but these do let one know if outlet is safe: grounded, proper polarity, GFCItest, neutral/ground reversed. Improper wiring can cause a hot chassis resulting in annoying to fatal shocks. Somone on this forum mentioned grounding the chassis with a cable and a copper rod stuck in the ground. We shall be installing this on Roadtrek before we got to Yucatan, southern west coast, and Patzcuaro...

Had hot chassis twice after Patzcuaro and we just relied on solar after that. We had sunny days for six weeks.

Reed and Elaine
briansue
Explorer
Sep 06, 2017
To fool the testers, the earth ground terminal is shorted to the neutral at the post!

You may be correct but I am not absolutely sure. I think a good tester would know if the neutral was common at the outlet otherwise any and all circuits in any house could fool the electrical inspector in the USA when he walks through the house randomly checking outlets with the same tester we would use - I have seen this done and they don't open outlets to physically check the outlet - they use a tester. I think there has to be a specific ground wire going from the main panel to any and all outlets. I think in Mexico there are people who will tie the ground slot of the outlet to the neutral wire but I don't think this would fool a tester - otherwise testers would be pointless anywhere. Testers are designed to recognize cheaters. But I am not 100% certain.
Canadian_Rainbi
Explorer
Sep 06, 2017
briansue wrote:
ground and neutral are common.

To the best of my knowledge ground and neutral are always common as they are connected to the same bar in the main panel - I don't know of any other way of doing it.

I have seen NO earth ground in many Mexican campgrounds. To fool the testers, the earth ground terminal is shorted to the neutral at the post!
reed_cundiff
Explorer
Sep 05, 2017
Briansue

Good idea for pulling grounding rod.

Reed and Elaine
briansue
Explorer
Sep 05, 2017
Not from a direct lightning strike, unless you are quite lucky.

True true! But we have been near lightning strikes a number of times in our lives - even a hundred yards or so can take out things like computers and TVs - we have lost several pieces of electronic equipment over the years - not in the RV but in various residences - we did not have protection.

I had a house in Colorado with a high TV antenna and the it got hit several times - first time it took out the TV but then I got a signal booster thingy from Radio Shack to improve antenna strength and each lightning strike took out that booster but nothing else - I would just go buy a new booster - didn't know about surge protectors back then.

A tree strike about a hundred yards away took out our stereo receiver once.

We once did a remodel/restoration to a house that had a fire due to a lightning strike - it came into the house through a wall clock - inspectors said lightning goes to point of least resistance which in that case was the wall clock. That was over 40 years ago.

I have been close enough to lightning for the hair on my arms to stand up. With today's sensitive electronics that could be enough to get to some devices. It doesn't take a direct hit and a surge protector can provide some level of protection. But our main reason for having the protector on our Bus is chances of line voltage weirdness.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Sep 05, 2017
Hi briansue,

Not from a direct lightning strike, unless you are quite lucky.

briansue wrote:
A surge protector can protect against surges in voltage that exceed safe levels. This could even mean lightning bolts.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Sep 05, 2017
Hi briansue,

More commonly called an autoformer. Surge protection can be added.

briansue wrote:
A voltage regulator can change incoming voltage to an acceptable level. It is not a surge protector.
briansue
Explorer
Sep 05, 2017
I carry small metal tent pegs to insert in the ground, they are cheap enough to leave if I can not pull them out, granted not the best but there is a path to ground with some water around the peg

Trick I learned long ago - leverage - wrap a small chain around the grounding rod - could be rebar or other length of rod - it may not work on an 8 foot length but will work on smooth rod up to 4 feet maybe - then wrap the other end of chain around some kind of stiff pry bar - 2x4 will work - things can be figured out if someone has tools - maintenance guys might have something - I have pulled some pretty serious stuff out of the ground with a couple feet of chain and a 2x4 - just takes a couple inches to get it started - keep in mind wet ground is better ground.

Click For Full-Size Image.