Well it is getting to be New truck time again.First off, I am not married to any brand. I have owned them all at one or more points.That said, The Rams and Fords did not make the cut this time around. You may disagree, but it's my money, and my rules as to what I will base my standards on.I was thinking of a GM 4500, but moved away from it, as the overall length would make some garage modifications necessary. And the fact that it is not available with a factory bed like the F450 has. So an aftermarket one of some sort would be needed. The costs seem to vary wildly on these.When I started reading about the 2020 GM 3500 DRW, it checked off a lot of my boxes.Then last night, I saw the overall length spec.A tape measure of the garage confirmed my suspicion. It has grown enoughto require pretty much the same garage mods as the 4500.So that part of it being a tossup, has me on the fence now.4500 pros: tougher truck all the way around.Wide track front axle, for tighter turning radius.Available now.Cons: Not sure about the insurance situation. Are they typically insured as commercial? Or is it just another vehicle on my private policy? This may vary with the state and the company. I am in AZ, and curently with Gieco.Probably a much harsher ride.The next one could end up in the pro collum.The aftermarket bed. What do you have? What do you like/dislike about it? Cost?The niceties are just not as nice. The tranny. There are several options available. I simply do not know enough about them to decide, which one would be for me.This too could possibly end up in the pro collum.3500 DRW pros:Very nice in the High Country trim. Features such as the virtual trailer camera system are a game changer.Upgraded capabilities would be more than enough.10 speed tranny is likely a plus.Can pretty much nail down the price now, since the bed is included.Same thing on the insurance.Cons: Not as stout as the 4500. This may be a long term durability issue. Not available now.That is about all I have thought of so far.Would be interested hearing others thoughts. Especially from those that have already made the decision either way, and what they have learned since.Oh yeah, a new 5th wheel TH in the 20-24K range is in the future.

Here's the main reason I'd avoid the 4500 for now: ServiceThis truck being a joint venture, will have some parts designed and/or supplied by Navistar that won't be in the regular GM pipeline. Or might not be covered in the GM repair guides yet. And GM has a history of rolling out other joint venture vehicles without having enough techs trained initially.Ford was formerly in the same boat with the F650, before pulling it away from Navistar. Getting work done wasn't always a pleasant experience, and Oregon only has one dealer certified to work on the "Blue Diamond" (the joint venture name) F650/750 trucks.Also, it probably won't ride as well, since the 3500 likely has a much stiffer frame, especially torsionally. While the MDT frame are strong, they tend to be a little floppy so you feel more judder.

The big question you didn't answer is: What are you going to use the truck for?I have pushed my '05 Chevy dually well past it's GVWR numerous times with both my TC and my work. I often have the truck's axles supporting over 12,000 pounds while pulling another 14,000 or so pounds. It's done well but I always figured the next truck would be a 4500 and I was excited to see Chevy make them again. But, a new 3500 is so much more capable than my '05 that with my same weights I would be within it's ratings. I've sat in a 5500 and while really nice it is also really tall. I wish they had kept them low like RAM and Ford did, basically still pick-up height. The big problem with the tall cab is that it would be nearly impossible to use it for a truck camper. You would have to raise the camper up to clear the tall cab. That's not something I really want to do.As for the bed, I run a flatbed with boxes above and below. Previously I had a utility body with storage. Both of these are for my business use but they worked out great with TCs too. I had plenty of storage for tools, fluids, cord, hoses, camp chairs, etc. even with the TC in the bed.If you want to pull a FW a nice hauler bed would give you lots of storage and make hitching and unhitching the FW real easy.The real kicker is they lowered the HP and torque on the 4500 and larger trucks. They are still incredible powerful but not absurdly powerful like the 3500.I've decided my next truck will be a 3500 ordered with no bed so I can have a new utility bed put on it.

KD4UPL wrote:The big question you didn't answer is: What are you going to use the truck for?I have pushed my '05 Chevy dually well past it's GVWR numerous times with both my TC and my work. I often have the truck's axles supporting over 12,000 pounds while pulling another 14,000 or so pounds. It's done well but I always figured the next truck would be a 4500 and I was excited to see Chevy make them again. But, a new 3500 is so much more capable than my '05 that with my same weights I would be within it's ratings. I've sat in a 5500 and while really nice it is also really tall. I wish they had kept them low like RAM and Ford did, basically still pick-up height. The big problem with the tall cab is that it would be nearly impossible to use it for a truck camper. You would have to raise the camper up to clear the tall cab. That's not something I really want to do.As for the bed, I run a flatbed with boxes above and below. Previously I had a utility body with storage. Both of these are for my business use but they worked out great with TCs too. I had plenty of storage for tools, fluids, cord, hoses, camp chairs, etc. even with the TC in the bed.If you want to pull a FW a nice hauler bed would give you lots of storage and make hitching and unhitching the FW real easy.The real kicker is they lowered the HP and torque on the 4500 and larger trucks. They are still incredible powerful but not absurdly powerful like the 3500.I've decided my next truck will be a 3500 ordered with no bed so I can have a new utility bed put on it.Will be getting a 5th wheel TH in the 20-24K range.

Huntingdog, if you are tagged in AZ. make sure to call your insurance agent first!

I see the big flop with GMs 4500 being the position of the DEF fill. ”Smartly Postioned” as GM puts it on the passenger side front fender. Every truck stop in the country has the DEF fill nossel on the Driver side.

Should I get a 2020 GM 3500 DRW or a 4500? | Good Sam Community

35 Replies

Huntindog
Explorer
Jul 11, 2019
ACZL wrote:
Not sure what your wallet will handle, but have you by chance looked into a Frieghtliner Business Class truck (new or used)? Can get w/ air ride susp and seats and possibly cab too. Don't think you'd ever have to worry about weights. Larger brakes, tires, frame and all. Will agree with others tho that service on the road for MD trucks can be difficult and $$$$.

I doubt they would fit in the garage due to height.
And I think they may be hard to get in 4X4.

I could be wrong on both counts though.
twodownzero
Explorer
Jul 11, 2019
jshupe wrote:
twodownzero wrote:
What kind of toy haulers offer that kind of GVWR? All the three axle ones I've seen are 18k, and around 13-14k empty.

I would definitely go for the 4500, or some other medium duty for that kind of weight. The all steel tires alone would be a huge benefit, and the much larger rear axle will support the weight better than what comes in a 1 ton truck. A trailer that heavy is going to get into a zone with the pin weight that may make a regular 1 ton DRW balk (not to mention the potential legal issues).

24K @ 20% pin 4800lbs. A mid-trim, current generation 1T DRW has a payload of 5500+ (up to 7680 in 2019 RAM, 7442 on 2020 GM with more basic trims) and GCWR north of 40K. There shouldn't be any legal issues there. Maybe you're on to something with the axles, but the current Ram and GM offerings can be optioned with 12" axles with 4.25" tubes which are far larger than the axles just a couple generations ago. It wouldn't be a terrible decision to go with a 4500, but it isn't a necessary one, and your talking points sound like they are formed based on an older generation of trucks.

I might be with you on the steel tires though, if bumping above 5K payload - you can always put 19.5s or 22.5s on a DRW.

20% doesn't leave much cushion. 700 pounds of remaining payload is okay I guess, as long as you don't carry a lot of passengers. Certainly a regular cab DRW truck will have much more than that, but most of us aren't driving a regular cab.

I wouldn't want 19.5 tires if I could get away with not using them as the traction is garbage and the ride is worse, but if you want to pull heavy you have to pay.
Grit_dog
Trailblazer
Jul 11, 2019
RE, the new GM class 4 and 5 trucks, one of the big downfalls, besides if you want a factory pickup bed, is the height, IMO. Not as "pickup like" as the F450 pickups and the 4500/5500 Rams that don't look like they got stretched and plopped on top of a straight rail frame. Idk how this factors into pin heights, but maybe a concern.

Daily driver factor of those will likely be yuck as well, just like pretty much any other C&C truck.
Up to 25klbs, I'd still go 3500 dually, pick your flavor unless it's strictly a hauler. I don't think durability will be an issue at all. Drive trains are the same as their big brothers. Chassis's are stouter than ever and they all have rear axles that wont even flinch at 8-10klb axle loads. As a bonus, you can air it down and have a decent mall crawler AND have more power under the hood!
Grit_dog
Trailblazer
Jul 11, 2019
deltabravo wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
Well it is getting to be New truck time again.

Your blue text is extremely hard to read.

Your black text is extremely hard to read. lol
n0arp
Explorer
Jul 11, 2019
ACZL wrote:
My problem with any of the big 3 is strapping a whopping huge weight trailer on, grossing 30-35k and either not having the experience towing those kinds of weights AND stopping it.

Not that I disagree, but I'd like to mention that you can convert any trailer to EoH disc brakes, and I believe that will get you more stopping power than a bigger TV and the standard electric drums will. I know my loaded stopping distance was reduced by at least 50% when I converted mine.

Also worth mentioning is that the exhaust brake in my Cummins feels a whole lot stronger than the one in my LML Duramax.
ACZL
Explorer
Jul 11, 2019
ACZL wrote:
Not sure what your wallet will handle, but have you by chance looked into a Frieghtliner Business Class truck (new or used)? Can get w/ air ride susp and seats and possibly cab too. Don't think you'd ever have to worry about weights. Larger brakes, tires, frame and all. Will agree with others tho that service on the road for MD trucks can be difficult and $$$$. I am impressed with the weight capacity increase in the GM line for '20. My problem with any of the big 3 is strapping a whopping huge weight trailer on, grossing 30-35k and either not having the experience towing those kinds of weights AND stopping it. Sure they all say they can tow it, but stopping can be another thing. In the long run, if you still want to stick w/ the GM line and see yourself towing a lot in the future, I'd opt for the 4500 only cuz of bigger brakes and frame. I don't see how the frame of the 4500 is less beefy than the 3500. Air ride can probly be done on the 4500. Tho I said opt for the 4500, service on the road could be an issue, but for pure weight and safety towing heavy, for me the 4500 would win out. As it has been said on this forum many times, can never have enough truck.

Also, IMO too, GM's 45 & 5500 trucks are really rebadged IH trucks w/ bowtie on the grill. IH made CAT trucks which were nothing more than IH's w/ CAT logos and different trim/colors/dash layout. Marriage lasted just a couple of years.
Bedlam
Moderator
Jul 11, 2019
I would hold off on buying the first model year of any product, so if you are set on a GM 4500 can you wait one more year?

My Ram 5500 had a rough ride until I had over 3 tons of payload on the rear. 2 tons made it tolerable, but empty is a rough ride on anything but smooth roads.

I pay for desired GVWR in my state and have commercial insurance written for private use through Progressive. Any GVWR at 14k lbs or more is considered commercial plates in my state, but I pay about $200/year for an 18k lb registration. I went from a 2005 F250 to a 2015 5500 and State Farm wanted about 50 percent more for the same insurance coverage. Moving to Progressive, I pay about $1000/year.
ACZL
Explorer
Jul 11, 2019
Not sure what your wallet will handle, but have you by chance looked into a Frieghtliner Business Class truck (new or used)? Can get w/ air ride susp and seats and possibly cab too. Don't think you'd ever have to worry about weights. Larger brakes, tires, frame and all. Will agree with others tho that service on the road for MD trucks can be difficult and $$$$. I am impressed with the weight capacity increase in the GM line for '20. My problem with any of the big 3 is strapping a whopping huge weight trailer on, grossing 30-35k and either not having the experience towing those kinds of weights AND stopping it. Sure they all say they can tow it, but stopping can be another thing. In the long run, if you still want to stick w/ the GM line and see yourself towing a lot in the future, I'd opt for the 4500 only cuz of bigger brakes and frame. I don't see how the frame of the 4500 is less beefy than the 3500. Air ride can probly be done on the 4500. Tho I said opt for the 4500, service on the road could be an issue, but for pure weight and safety towing heavy, for me the 4500 would win out.

Also, IMO too, GM's 45 & 5500 trucks are really rebadged IH trucks w/ bowtie on the grill. IH made CAT trucks which were nothing more than IH's w/ CAT logos and different trim/colors/dash layout. Marriage lasted just a couple of years.
n0arp
Explorer
Jul 11, 2019
twodownzero wrote:
What kind of toy haulers offer that kind of GVWR? All the three axle ones I've seen are 18k, and around 13-14k empty.

I would definitely go for the 4500, or some other medium duty for that kind of weight. The all steel tires alone would be a huge benefit, and the much larger rear axle will support the weight better than what comes in a 1 ton truck. A trailer that heavy is going to get into a zone with the pin weight that may make a regular 1 ton DRW balk (not to mention the potential legal issues).

24K @ 20% pin 4800lbs. A mid-trim, current generation 1T DRW has a payload of 5500+ (up to 7680 in 2019 RAM, 7442 on 2020 GM with more basic trims) and GCWR north of 40K. There shouldn't be any legal issues there. Maybe you're on to something with the axles, but the current Ram and GM offerings can be optioned with 12" axles with 4.25" tubes which are far larger than the axles just a couple generations ago. It wouldn't be a terrible decision to go with a 4500, but it isn't a necessary one, and your talking points sound like they are formed based on an older generation of trucks.

I might be with you on the steel tires though, if bumping above 5K payload - you can always put 19.5s or 22.5s on a DRW.
ppine
Explorer III
Jul 11, 2019
Ditto 4x4ord.

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Should I get a 2020 GM 3500 DRW or a 4500?

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