So who will be first with an electric pickup. And when.

valhalla360 wrote:

drsteve wrote:
Electric vehicles will eventually send internal combustion to the scrapyard. Aside from the environmental advantages, less required scheduled maintenance and less likelihood of expensive repairs will be the difference makers.

I do not know anyone who owns an EV and hates it.

I think the maintenance savings are a myth. Other than oil changes about once a year, I haven't had engine work on a vehicle in years. It's mostly brakes, tires, suspension...all of which EV's have.

Yeah, there are occasional motor problems but I'm betting those are offset by electrical problems.

As far as early adopters, I would take that with a huge grain of salt. To spend far more on an EV only to admit it was a mistake means most unsatisfied EV owners, quietly dispose of them and never speak of it again. It won't be until we see large scale production with average people buying them that we can start to get good results from polls.

Brakes not so much. EV's don't really use brakes much as much of the speed reduction is done with regenerative braking. Still have brake fluid though. Reduced fuel costs have to be considered...depending on which country or region you live in your savings can be substantial especially for those who put on a lot of miles. Not our case as we seem to drive only about 12 to 16 K per year but it still is a reasonable savings in fuel. Not to mention the convenience of fueling at home.

But I agree it can be a myth depending on the car. Hi end EV's like Tesla are like high end Audis or Mercedes or BMW's and come with 300 dollar annual maintenance schedules with includes a late and a schone. Cheaper cars like a 30 thousand dollar leaf not so much. Many people have had their leafs for 7 years and never brought it in for a single check. If you drop 80 grand on a Tesla S though you better expect a pricier maintenence schedule. Wether you follow it or not or do it yourself is up to you.

drsteve wrote:
Electric vehicles will eventually send internal combustion to the scrapyard. Aside from the environmental advantages, less required scheduled maintenance and less likelihood of expensive repairs will be the difference makers.

I do not know anyone who owns an EV and hates it.

I think the maintenance savings are a myth. Other than oil changes about once a year, I haven't had engine work on a vehicle in years. It's mostly brakes, tires, suspension...all of which EV's have.

Yeah, there are occasional motor problems but I'm betting those are offset by electrical problems.

As far as early adopters, I would take that with a huge grain of salt. To spend far more on an EV only to admit it was a mistake means most unsatisfied EV owners, quietly dispose of them and never speak of it again. It won't be until we see large scale production with average people buying them that we can start to get good results from polls.

valhalla360 wrote:
A hybrid or electric pickup is very much viable but not as a tow vehicle.

As is often mentioned, most pickups are used as commuter vehicles (aka: Grocery Getters). If you occasionally need to pick up lumber from home depot, it could be a great option.
- To keep a pickup running at 70mph only takes maybe 60-80hp but they typically have 200+HP engines because the acceleration of a 80hp pickup would be horrid. A hybrid would allow you to put in an 80hp engine and allow for decent acceleration with the MPG advantages of a small engine running at near peak efficiency. The problem for towing is you often need twice as much power on a continuous basis just going down the road and if you climb a steep grade it might be 3-4 times as much. The small battery bank in a hybrid would die very quickly under that kind of heavy usage and then you are stranded on the side of the road or limited to very low speeds with only 80hp.
- Pure electric also works as a commuter vehicle. Plenty of room between the frame rails for batteries and if you don't need a lot of cargo capacity it can carry a lot of batteries but let's take the poster boy tesla. The battery bank that gets 300miles weighs in at 1200lbs. An aerodymaic car might need 40-50hp to maintain highway speeds. Pulling a trailer, the engine is going to put out closer to 150hp to maintain speed so figure 3-4 times the battery bank size or around 3400-4800lbs of batteries Ignoring the costs of that massive battery bank, that will eat up all the cargo capacity of a 1/2ton pickup, meaning it can't handle the tongue weight or anything else in the truck bed. The other big difference is a commuter vehicle is assumed to charge at night and then travel a modest distance before being charged again. When you cut thru the hype, cross country road trips are usually stunts. A typical RV towing experience is often north of 250-500miles in a day which leaves range a real issue. Also, dry camping without electricity becomes problematic. Even 30amp outlets can be a problem. If it's hot out and the air/con is running all the time, can the system supply sufficient power to charge the truck (and will the park take issue with you stressing out their marginal system plus without paying extra).

A lot of urban delivery trucks are very much viable. If you do 100 miles of deliveries during the day and bring the truck back to the warehouse to charge at night, that can be done. There are actually electric delivery vans in europe now.

So that leaves us at a marketing dilemma. People buy Grocery Getters because they want to feel they can do anything even if they never will. Once you get them to admit they won't ever put their house on casters and drive it down the road, the whole case for a full size truck goes away. Most could do fine with a small car and a utility trailer or an 1980's vintage 100hp small pickup (not the overgrown midsize of today).

Good breakdown. I think the only thing I would maybe not be 100 percent with is the typical RV experience. Most of the best RV places from us are 70 to 120 miles away. Although we do the occasional long trip, most summer weekend camping is fairly close.

Also long distance trips in an EV (or at least a Tesla) is quite viable and commonly done today. The Supercharger network is already quite extensive and growing quite rapidly. We routinely stop for 45 minutes to an hour every 3 or 4 hours anyway and sometimes more often. Lots of opportunities to fast charge during those breaks. There are lots of Tesla owners that do north of 40,000 miles a year (thats why they bought a Tesla) Not as good yet with non Teslas as the infrastructure isn't as good. It remains to be seen if other manufacturers will step up to the plate here. It is one of the reasons that Teslas sell so well compared to other manufacturers.

Anyway. I agree that the first EV pickups will probably pointed at the grocery getter crowd that pulls the boat to the lake on the weekend.

Electric vehicles will eventually send internal combustion to the scrapyard. Aside from the environmental advantages, less required scheduled maintenance and less likelihood of expensive repairs will be the difference makers.

I do not know anyone who owns an EV and hates it.

A hybrid or electric pickup is very much viable but not as a tow vehicle.

As is often mentioned, most pickups are used as commuter vehicles (aka: Grocery Getters). If you occasionally need to pick up lumber from home depot, it could be a great option.
- To keep a pickup running at 70mph only takes maybe 60-80hp but they typically have 200+HP engines because the acceleration of a 80hp pickup would be horrid. A hybrid would allow you to put in an 80hp engine and allow for decent acceleration with the MPG advantages of a small engine running at near peak efficiency. The problem for towing is you often need twice as much power on a continuous basis just going down the road and if you climb a steep grade it might be 3-4 times as much. The small battery bank in a hybrid would die very quickly under that kind of heavy usage and then you are stranded on the side of the road or limited to very low speeds with only 80hp.
- Pure electric also works as a commuter vehicle. Plenty of room between the frame rails for batteries and if you don't need a lot of cargo capacity it can carry a lot of batteries but let's take the poster boy tesla. The battery bank that gets 300miles weighs in at 1200lbs. An aerodymaic car might need 40-50hp to maintain highway speeds. Pulling a trailer, the engine is going to put out closer to 150hp to maintain speed so figure 3-4 times the battery bank size or around 3400-4800lbs of batteries Ignoring the costs of that massive battery bank, that will eat up all the cargo capacity of a 1/2ton pickup, meaning it can't handle the tongue weight or anything else in the truck bed. The other big difference is a commuter vehicle is assumed to charge at night and then travel a modest distance before being charged again. When you cut thru the hype, cross country road trips are usually stunts. A typical RV towing experience is often north of 250-500miles in a day which leaves range a real issue. Also, dry camping without electricity becomes problematic. Even 30amp outlets can be a problem. If it's hot out and the air/con is running all the time, can the system supply sufficient power to charge the truck (and will the park take issue with you stressing out their marginal system plus without paying extra).

A lot of urban delivery trucks are very much viable. If you do 100 miles of deliveries during the day and bring the truck back to the warehouse to charge at night, that can be done. There are actually electric delivery vans in europe now.

So that leaves us at a marketing dilemma. People buy Grocery Getters because they want to feel they can do anything even if they never will. Once you get them to admit they won't ever put their house on casters and drive it down the road, the whole case for a full size truck goes away. Most could do fine with a small car and a utility trailer or an 1980's vintage 100hp small pickup (not the overgrown midsize of today).

K Charles wrote:
Chicago has at least one garbage truck that is electric. China has a few thousand. They aren't little trucks either, so it can be done.

So 50-100miles at low speed where drag is negligible. Electric is great for stop and go where it gets nearly the same range as if you ran at a steady 40mph.

Also, it's a govt program so cost and functionality are often not a major consideration to the politico's creating the programs.

I can see a place for synthetic liquid fuels produced from renewable energy sources. Transfer the energy into a high density format we've already got the infrastructure and engines to consume.

Lessmore wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

Lessmore wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
Wouldn't this be more appropriate for one of those electric vehicle sites instead of a RV site?

Good morning. Well, not really. This is the tow vehicle forum and thats what the thread is a about. Just an EV version. EV's make pretty good tow vehicles. I can see a nice ford silver half ton pulling an airstream. Sweet.

But John invariably many of your posts seem to be about promoting electric as opposed to gas/oil powered vehicles.

I have to admit, I sometimes wonder if you're involved with anti oil/gas advocacy groups ?

Heh Heh. No. Just an enthusiast who loves driving these things. I post stuff I find interesting. I think within the next decade EV tow vehicles will be a reality. There are already people pulling RV's with EV's so why not put it out there for discussion. I have no green axe to grind but enjoy the aspects of EV travel and transportation. To each his own. What works for one doesn't work for the next. Our RV is still a diesel pusher and will be probably for the next 5 to 7 years. And then maybe an EV based Class B van. :)...or a 1/2 ton SUV type EV pulling a bigfoot trailer. :) We'll be downsizing when we hit 60.

Sorry if I misjudged you. As you say you're an enthusiast, not a green advocate.

You love driving, so do I. I enjoy driving all sorts of vehicles and also used to do a lot of motorcycle riding.

You mentioned you like driving EVs. Do you also enjoy driving a vehicle with a high performance internal combustion engine...say a powerful V8 or a high winding inline four or six cylinder ?

Driving these hi po vehicles is not just enjoyable in terms of acceleration, but also the sounds an internal combustion engine makes....which an electric vehicle doesn't, of course being quiet.

As you say..."What works for one doesn't work for the next." Good statement and I wonder whether in the future that consumers will have a choice...if they can actually choose the system that 'works for them.' Me, I like IC engines for a number of reasons. That's the system that works for me.

Given those considerations, do you see a future world where different types of vehicles such as ...electric only ....hybrid electric/IC...IC alone...freely coexist and consumers are able to freely choose...say within 10 to 50 years ?

Where there aren't artificial penalties in the form of additional gas/oil taxes assessed to the cost of gas/oil products, in order to discourage their purchase and to encourage acceptance of other, particularly non IC technology ?

Although I had a Trans am in my younger days I actually prefer the small 4 banger british sports car experience although we haven't had one for awhile. Really enjoyed our F350 dually 7.3 back in our military days. Pulled our golden falcon fifth wheel effortlessly. We switched to EV's about 2.5 years ago when we had an adress and commute change. They suit us really well and honestly we would never go back. We love every thing about them including that they don't have any emissions but from the point of view that my garage never stinks and there is no chance of an oil spot on my garage floor. (Kinda anal that way). Love never having to spend time at a gas station, 6 seconds to plug it in at the end of the day. Dead quiet. They handle really well with all the weight of the battery in the floor. Nice to be able to pre warm or cool it from the iphone while it is in the garage or outside or wherever. Leave the AC on while you pop into the store for something in the summer. No more oil changes. Heck, two years of maintenance has been a jug of washer fluid. Lots of things. But again, they work for us. Other have different needs and EV's don't fill all the spaces yet. We have driven pretty much every EV out there. Our favourite is still the model s P100D Tesla. Out of my budget though. I would love to see a 22 foot class B EV road Trek or whatever. Hopefully they will have something out by that time that works for us. 300 miles is plenty of range for us. We stop every couple hours anyway and a once a day one hour stop for a fast charge wouldn't change how we travel. EV travelling is actually easy to adapt to.

Yes I believe the market will support a variety of drive trains in the next 20 years but I do believe that in some places in the world, by 2040 some cities will have legislated ICE vehicles out of existence in the name of City air quality. I have no problem with that if that is what the people want. I hate air I can see. :)

John & Angela wrote:

Lessmore wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
Wouldn't this be more appropriate for one of those electric vehicle sites instead of a RV site?

Good morning. Well, not really. This is the tow vehicle forum and thats what the thread is a about. Just an EV version. EV's make pretty good tow vehicles. I can see a nice ford silver half ton pulling an airstream. Sweet.

But John invariably many of your posts seem to be about promoting electric as opposed to gas/oil powered vehicles.

I have to admit, I sometimes wonder if you're involved with anti oil/gas advocacy groups ?

Heh Heh. No. Just an enthusiast who loves driving these things. I post stuff I find interesting. I think within the next decade EV tow vehicles will be a reality. There are already people pulling RV's with EV's so why not put it out there for discussion. I have no green axe to grind but enjoy the aspects of EV travel and transportation. To each his own. What works for one doesn't work for the next. Our RV is still a diesel pusher and will be probably for the next 5 to 7 years. And then maybe an EV based Class B van. :)...or a 1/2 ton SUV type EV pulling a bigfoot trailer. :) We'll be downsizing when we hit 60.

Sorry if I misjudged you. As you say you're an enthusiast, not a green advocate.

You love driving, so do I. I enjoy driving all sorts of vehicles and also used to do a lot of motorcycle riding.

You mentioned you like driving EVs. Do you also enjoy driving a vehicle with a high performance internal combustion engine...say a powerful V8 or a high winding inline four or six cylinder ?

Driving these hi po vehicles is not just enjoyable in terms of acceleration, but also the sounds an internal combustion engine makes....which an electric vehicle doesn't, of course being quiet.

As you say..."What works for one doesn't work for the next." Good statement and I wonder whether in the future that consumers will have a choice...if they can actually choose the system that 'works for them.' Me, I like IC engines for a number of reasons. That's the system that works for me.

Given those considerations, do you see a future world where different types of vehicles such as ...electric only ....hybrid electric/IC...IC alone...freely coexist and consumers are able to freely choose...say within 10 to 50 years ?

Where there aren't artificial penalties in the form of additional gas/oil taxes assessed to the cost of gas/oil products, in order to discourage their purchase and to encourage acceptance of other, particularly non IC technology ?