Synthetic oil

I started using synthetic in 1982. Converted a number of carb'd gasser big and small blocks over the next twenty years.

On the CTD -- even in hot as Hades South Texas -- the motor turns over from cold just that much easier with synthetic. I've been using T6 Rotella and a BALDWIN filter. Change annually the past few years as miles have been quite low.

I agree that dino is worlds better than thirty or forty years ago. And that the gap is smaller. THe vehicle is a keeper so oil change cost is irrelevant in main.

Not just viscosity, but film strength to keep a film of oil on mating
surfaces that has cheaper oils drain off over nite

That is the biggie for cold starts.

Viscosity is getting the oil out there in the morning, which is also
very important

Anyway, no one is going to change my mind and not going help anyone
or most in these discussions make an educated decision on this topic

Am surprised the infamous, out of context CS NYC Taxi study hasn't
reared it out of context head here. That said El Cheapo jug oil is just
dandy...but out of context if you do not own/drive a NYC Taxi...which
many days never gets turned off...and if it does...it is restarted
soon after...not over night

Every CAM I've ever installed had similar instructions, but the
special tube of break-in lube lists MolyB as an ingredient.

MolyB is NOT for automatics and diff's with clutches. Too slippery
and will ruin them.

On the Valve Train stuff, it is the ticket to get the mating surfaces
honed in to match. MolyB is to keep it from gouging, as the PSI is
one of the highest in any ICE's innards

Agree that also am amazed at the tens of thousands of bucks folks
pay for their vehicles...to then cheap out on materials and maintenance

Add that today's majority of owners do NOT keep them long enough to
enjoy the fruits of their decisions...the next owner does...

My BIL owns an auto parts shop and told me that synthetic oil is thinner. Not sure if that's a myth or true.

We had an oil change done on our Subaru (at about 100K miles) and got talked into a high mileage synthetic blend by a local speedy oil & lube shop. Oil started leaking onto the manifolds and burning (not exactly a nice odor). At first they thought that the oil filter was leaking but it turned out to be the infamous and rather common Subaru leaking head gasket problem. I replaced the gaskets myself and it hasn't leaked since.

So is it true that if you switch to synthetic at some point that you can end up with leaks you wouldn't have had otherwise? I know dino oil thins out with temp. but I thought synthetic has relatively stable viscosity with temp. changes? Maybe it's that synthetic has some other properties that cause it to leak more?

I've thought about switching to synthetic in our F250 but I sure don't want to end up with a leak, but maybe there is no major advantage anyway.

At the risk of repeating again what is written and not read - your money spend as you feel fit but don't be telling the rest of the progressive people they are wrong. Need, you don't need RV's, booze, cigarettes, fancy vehicles, large homes or vacations they and other things are wants. I and several others want the best and believe that is what we are obtaining within our financial assets. I work in a northern mining environment and nobody can abuse equipment in adverse conditions than these folks. That being said they use synthetic lubricants for the reasons put forward and thus based my decision to use the best. When asked what I use just like others I tell you why I like what has worked for me. If you choose to disagree it is still your money but don't try to convince me I am an idiot because of endorsing proven technologies. Shell Rotella has an excellent reputation but here in the Shell mine they use synthetics and they are the manufacturer and end user. Folks in the south have heat issues so again it just works better.

P Kennedy wrote:
I have said this all along RV'ers will spend big money on items that are depreciating from the day of purchase. Then when there is cost for replacement or maintenance they cry continuously about cost of the small items and fight every person who recommends an upgrade. The upgrades are better quality and reduce maintenance issues. Fact synthetic lubricating oils and greases have superior high and cold temp properties. Fact these properties reduce wear and are being used in more applications world wide. Fact the cost of premium products cost more usually related to development and manufacturing costs. Fact the old school old style ways will work but in the end they are not the same. It is like using an abacus to do modern accounting it will get done but the road there has it's issues. I converted all my vehicles and trailers to LED and have been complimented on the brightness and effectiveness with virtually no replacements. When the cost question comes up the conversation usually ends quickly. When we talk about oils usually the same thing despite well over a million miles recorded on my class 8 tractor components and my Dodge/Ram Cummins and 3 trucks I am told I am the idiot for spending the money. My Cummins B series engines are all doing 25000 km oil changes with good oil sample results every time. Fact it's my money and I spend it how I want and if you want to fight my every word on my success well it's your money please do what you desire. "Approach with an open mind become educated, those that come with a closed mind have stopped learning."

The question is need vs cost.

For example:

Lets say I developed an engine oil that if you use it, you will never wear out your engine. Would you buy it rather than the synthetic you use now? What if I told you this oil is very expensive to make and I will charge you $10 a quart for it. You would? Remember, you still have to change it on OEM recommendations.

Ok, what about a $100 a quart?

Ok, what about $500 a quart?

Ok, what about $1,000 a quart?!!!!!!

Where did you stop buying my oil and why?

I could be wrong, but I bet you wouldn't pay $100 a quart or more for my oil. And I will throw some of the nomenclature about oil I hear here all the time.

"We all know synesthetic oils are better, so why not buy them?"

or, I hear this one all the time on here:

"I've used synesthetic oil for a million miles and nothing has ever gone wrong with my engines."

Or:

"You spent a lot of money on your TV/RV so why not give it the best oil?"

Now the question becomes; why not? Why wouldn't you pay $100 or $500 or a $1,000 for my oil?
I bet the answer will be the same as why I don't use synethetic oils in most of my engines including most of my race engines: "I don't need them." "My engines will out last the vehicle they are in with the oil I now use." Like I said; the benefit is just not there for "most" of my engines and I can prove that by the engines I have torn down and inspected using conventional oil.



I pulled the heads off of my truck engine at 130K and they was still very pronounced cross hatching in the bores. This is an engine that used Rotella dino oil all of it's life. I bet at 250K if I still have the truck it will still have cross hatch in the bores.

Some of you on this board treat synesthetic oil like the elephant repellant story:

A guy walking along a road sees a farmer in a field in England spraying a very smelly substance all over the fields. Naturally curious he goes over, and, holding his nose, asks him what he is spraying on the fields. "Elephant repellant" replies the farmer. "But there are no elephants anywhere near here!" protests the guy. "I know," says the farmer, "it really works!"

I agree with you, P Kennedy, and I've always use synthetics in my vehicles. Watch any YouTube videos showing how much better they flow in cold temperature is enough to convince me. That being said, I oils have come a long way over the years and most people don't see the tdmperature extremes shown in the testing. That combined with better built engines and people trading in cars before there is major wear on the engine and conventional oil is probably ok for most. I tend to wait until around the 300000 k mark, so good oil is more important to me.

I have said this all along RV'ers will spend big money on items that are depreciating from the day of purchase. Then when there is cost for replacement or maintenance they cry continuously about cost of the small items and fight every person who recommends an upgrade. The upgrades are better quality and reduce maintenance issues. Fact synthetic lubricating oils and greases have superior high and cold temp properties. Fact these properties reduce wear and are being used in more applications world wide. Fact the cost of premium products cost more usually related to development and manufacturing costs. Fact the old school old style ways will work but in the end they are not the same. It is like using an abacus to do modern accounting it will get done but the road there has it's issues. I converted all my vehicles and trailers to LED and have been complimented on the brightness and effectiveness with virtually no replacements. When the cost question comes up the conversation usually ends quickly. When we talk about oils usually the same thing despite well over a million miles recorded on my class 8 tractor components and my Dodge/Ram Cummins and 3 trucks I am told I am the idiot for spending the money. My Cummins B series engines are all doing 25000 km oil changes with good oil sample results every time. Fact it's my money and I spend it how I want and if you want to fight my every word on my success well it's your money please do what you desire. "Approach with an open mind become educated, those that come with a closed mind have stopped learning."

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ScottG wrote:

RAS43 wrote:

Passin Thru wrote:

Flows easily, therefore not recommend for use on high mileage engines; nor do I recommend using it in new engines during the break-in period because it is so slippery and dramatically limits the wearing of new mating parts within the engine. This initial wearing of parts is what makes for proper engine break-in, sealing of piston rings, mating of camshafts and lifters, etc.

You do know that more and more manufacturers are using synthetics in their engines today without issues don't you? One example is Corvette and their engines are doing great. Just saying.

Yes, this is old wives tale stuff. Engines can break in just fine with syn. oil and most exotics come with it from the factory.

Do what you want, but this is no wives tale.

Here is what Crane Cams has to say about the subject:

Crane Cams wrote:
Crane Cams does not recommend the use of synthetic oils during the initial break-in period for a new camshaft. Use a good quality grade of naturally formulated motor oil during this period. If you choose to use synthetic oil after the engine has been broken in, change the oil filter and follow the oil manufacturer's instructions.

Last Comp Cam I put in had the same warning.

Comp Cams wrote:
Flat Tappet Break-In
All flat tappet cams will require special attention during the break-in process. Due to recent changes in motor oil formulas, a switch to a diesel or non-synthetic racing motor oil in combination with COMP Cams® #159 Camshaft Break In Lube is mandatory in order to avoid camshaft failure during break in. Cams requiring dual valve springs during normal operation will also require that the inner valve spring be removed during break in so that critical lifter rotation can be established. The appropriate COMP Cams® lifters, and correct valve springs, rocker arms, and pushrods are also absolutely essential to ensure long camshaft life. Please refer to the instructions in your cam box for complete procedures or page for our tech bulletin on the topic If ever in doubt, please call the COMP Cams® CAM HELP® line at 1-800-999-0853.

Another site that recommends to break in an engine on dino oil.

It's all over the board on manufacturer's recommendations. My 2013 Yamaha motorcycle recommends an oil change at 600 miles. I assume, and my dealer agrees, that it had a good conventional oil in it new. It got Amsoil at the 600 mile change.

According to the dealer, my wife's new RAV4 had synthetic in it from the factory, and the first oil change wasn't due until one year or 10,000 miles. She only drives about 5000 miles a year, so it'll get changed then to a synthetic again.

Buy a $50,000 or $60,000 or $70,000 pickup truck that depreciates $500 or $1000 a month that has a fairly high performance gasohol or diesel engine ...

tow a depreciating rv at 6 or 10 mpg ...

and then squabble about how to save money on engine lube oil :)

BenK brought up a point about oil supply on start up.

Cold engine oils.

ScottG wrote:

RAS43 wrote:

Passin Thru wrote:

Flows easily, therefore not recommend for use on high mileage engines; nor do I recommend using it in new engines during the break-in period because it is so slippery and dramatically limits the wearing of new mating parts within the engine. This initial wearing of parts is what makes for proper engine break-in, sealing of piston rings, mating of camshafts and lifters, etc.

You do know that more and more manufacturers are using synthetics in their engines today without issues don't you? One example is Corvette and their engines are doing great. Just saying.

Yes, this is old wives tale stuff. Engines can break in just fine with syn. oil and most exotics come with it from the factory.

Do what you want, but this is no wives tale.

Here is what Crane Cams has to say about the subject:

Crane Cams wrote:
Crane Cams does not recommend the use of synthetic oils during the initial break-in period for a new camshaft. Use a good quality grade of naturally formulated motor oil during this period. If you choose to use synthetic oil after the engine has been broken in, change the oil filter and follow the oil manufacturer's instructions.

Last Comp Cam I put in had the same warning.

Comp Cams wrote:
Flat Tappet Break-In
All flat tappet cams will require special attention during the break-in process. Due to recent changes in motor oil formulas, a switch to a diesel or non-synthetic racing motor oil in combination with COMP Cams® #159 Camshaft Break In Lube is mandatory in order to avoid camshaft failure during break in. Cams requiring dual valve springs during normal operation will also require that the inner valve spring be removed during break in so that critical lifter rotation can be established. The appropriate COMP Cams® lifters, and correct valve springs, rocker arms, and pushrods are also absolutely essential to ensure long camshaft life. Please refer to the instructions in your cam box for complete procedures or page for our tech bulletin on the topic If ever in doubt, please call the COMP Cams® CAM HELP® line at 1-800-999-0853.

Another site that recommends to break in an engine on dino oil.