Forum Discussion
JRscooby wrote:
Timmo! wrote:
Random thoughts about battling lithium-ion battery fires---
* The recent Tesla accident near Houston, firefighters used at least 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames. Firefighters at the scene contacted Tesla for advice on how to extinguish the blaze and were told just to let it burn out.
* 32,000 gallons of water weighs over 132 tons.
* Average fire truck holds only 500 gallons of water.
* Tesla's Emergency Response Guides excerpts--
FIREFIGHTING
USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons (11,356 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures.
Houston, think we may have a problem.....
OTOH, I have seen liquid fuel running down the street burning. And seen the fire start a block from the wreck. If the battery stays in 1 place that could be a plus.
I can remember several deadly and/or destructive truck fires. Every battery powered vehicle on the road helps displace another tanker.
The fear of the new is almost always worse than the few of what we have lived with all of our lives, whether deserved or not. When reading the instructions for dealing with a Tesla fire keep in mind that virtually consumer or pharmaceutical has warnings about the product causing injury or death. In California anything cooked on grill has to carry a cancer warning.- Fwiw
All new Tesla have improved fire resistant battery packs filled with flame retardant so fires shouldnt be a problem.
Buy new Tesla not old used one.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-battery-pack-fire-resistance-pictures/
https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/22/future-teslas-will-have-batteries-that-double-as-structure-making-them-extra-stiff-while-improving-efficiency-safety-and-cost/ JRscooby wrote:
Yes, a battery fire in 1 place in a parking garage would be bad. But what about burning gas flowing across the floor of that garage?...
I think we are talking about a vehicle collision occurring on the highway/freeway at high speeds (like Tesla accident smacking into a tree near Houston). When an IC smacks a tree at high speeds, the fiery explosion will usually cause the gas tank to explode...unlike the explosive scene from Die Hard where Bruce Willis blows up the airplane by simply igniting the leaking fuel during takeoff.
I wonder what happened the 32,000 of contaminated water (enough to fill an 32' x 40' swimming pool) the fire department used? Bet it went down the drain and into a waterway--right where us fishermen fish and our children play. Can we say "ecological disaster" caused by those who are "ecological minded souls?. What a conundrum we have here.- My question is how toxic and what sort of gases are released from a battery fire?
- I’m going to have to go watch the video again
I totally missed the fire fj12ryder wrote:
JRscooby wrote:
Of course that could depend on where that 1 place is located, like a parking garage. Car fire would be bad, gas or electric.
OTOH, I have seen liquid fuel running down the street burning. And seen the fire start a block from the wreck. If the battery stays in 1 place that could be a plus.
Yes, a battery fire in 1 place in a parking garage would be bad. But what about burning gas flowing across the floor of that garage?
Back in early '70s a wreck started a car fire a little east of you.(92&169) I pulled up next to the truck in front of me, and we both grabbed our extinguishers, ran up and made sure everybody was out of the cars. As we walked back to the trucks we watched fire come from behind our trucks. Gasoline from the car that was not burning had ran down the hill, and somehow got ignited.
Back when everybody drove hayburners, the main firefighting technology was a stack of buckets. When batteries are more common likely be advance in that techJRscooby wrote:
Of course that could depend on where that 1 place is located, like a parking garage. Car fire would be bad, gas or electric.
OTOH, I have seen liquid fuel running down the street burning. And seen the fire start a block from the wreck. If the battery stays in 1 place that could be a plus.Timmo! wrote:
Random thoughts about battling lithium-ion battery fires---
* The recent Tesla accident near Houston, firefighters used at least 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames. Firefighters at the scene contacted Tesla for advice on how to extinguish the blaze and were told just to let it burn out.
* 32,000 gallons of water weighs over 132 tons.
* Average fire truck holds only 500 gallons of water.
* Tesla's Emergency Response Guides excerpts--
FIREFIGHTING
USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons (11,356 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures.
Houston, think we may have a problem.....
OTOH, I have seen liquid fuel running down the street burning. And seen the fire start a block from the wreck. If the battery stays in 1 place that could be a plus.- Random thoughts about battling lithium-ion battery fires---
* The recent Tesla accident near Houston, firefighters used at least 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames. Firefighters at the scene contacted Tesla for advice on how to extinguish the blaze and were told just to let it burn out.
* 32,000 gallons of water weighs over 132 tons.
* Average fire truck holds only 500 gallons of water.
* Tesla's Emergency Response Guides excerpts--
FIREFIGHTING
USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons (11,356 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures.
Houston, think we may have a problem..... fj12ryder wrote:
noteven wrote:
Even at 20,000 miles per year, that will take about 9 years to accrue that many miles. Using an EV that much, will the batteries last 9 years, and should that be figured into the overall cost?Reisender wrote:
noteven wrote:
Reisender wrote:
bguy wrote:
Do they pay to plug in and charge?
Yep. Well, some of the earlier buyers got free lifetime charging but most of us pay to play. :).
What is your cost per km for energy in day to day use?
Well, life time kilometres per kWh for our leaf after 4 and a bit years was 6.4 kilometres per kWh. We pay 9 cents per kWh. There was no other maintenance other than washer fluid in four years.
We haven’t tracked the Tesla but I’m told it’s more efficient. We have had it a little over a year. Same thing. Only washer fluid for maintenance.
Superchargers are about 3 times as expensive as charging at home. They are generally only used on road trips. The vast majority of charging is done at home or work.
Hope that helps.
That is interesting - here in AB it is not uncommon for non city people to run a set of wheels for 300,000km. The electric vehicle would cost $4200 approx for energy at home. A fuel efficient gas passenger car about $27,000 for gas and my F350 about $54,000. :B
Who knows. But most companies warranty their batteries from 8 to 10 years. Some of the earlier EV batteries from 8 to 10 years ago have north of 400,000 kilometres on them. Our local cab company has a fleet of model S Tesla’s all from around 2014 that all have super high mileage. But, like I say, ask me in 12 years. :).
The tabless batteries going into the model S plaid, Cybertruck and semi are expected to have lifetimes in excess of a million kilometres.
