the dreaded tire topic...

FastEagle wrote:

If you have not read any of these reference materials you may want to add a couple of them to your researching materials.
Click Here!
FE

Thanks FE, did not know of that one. More reading to continue the education.

westend wrote:
Great post, John, you covered a lot of the bases.

Thanks West.

bigcitypopo wrote:
John!!! Outstanding! Thank you very Much!!!

Hi Big City, glad it helped or at least helped point you to think about some things to help you decide. Let us know how you make out

fla-gypsy wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:

JJBIRISH and I seem to have similar opinions and had the same bad experience with Duro tires. Unfortunately jumping to a LT tire was not an option for me like a lot of folks. I have taken my improvements as far as possible with Maxxis 225/75R15E's. Fresh, new, 2013's went on this morning. I am fortunate that the manufacturer of my cheapo, base line Keystone Hornet TT spec'd it with running gear exceeding the total GVWR of my TT and I now have wheels, tires and axles with the same rating. With my tongue weight added in I now have a minimum 15% reserve margin and it is all I can do.

I fully understand your pain… fortunately I have the room for the upgrade if I need to, but I am comfortable with the Maxxis I am using for the time being…

I believe you will be happy with your Maxxis selection to, mine have held up extremely well… they are 5 years old (boy it’s hard to believe how fast the time goes by) now and in great shape, and yes mine came with sufficient running gear to…

Good report John

I agree whole heartedly about reporting the failures to the NHTSA… they are the party responsible for collecting that data and issuing orders to make corrections…

But we can’t forget they are also the ones responsible for establishing the standards for all our highway tires… they are the ones that allowed for the sub-par trailer tire to be built with no reserve capacity in the build requirements… they are the ones that allowed the trailer tire to be built with practically no long term endurance testing… and they were the ones that allowed the ST tire to escape upgraded testing requirements after the rollover tread separation events of 2000, caving to the industry arguments that they are not a passenger tire and offer little risk of injury or property damage and should not be included in the updated testing procedures…

We can’t forget that the American tire and trailer industry worked very hard to build a special trailer tire market one that due to low demand was BOTH profitable and low cost caused by the constant pressure from the trailer industry’s… they encouraged the use of the ST tire and stopped building the smaller LT tires to lock in the use of the ST tire…

While switching to the LT tire can be a good move, it just isn’t possible for some, and it is costly for all…
Even though I agree with John, and tireman on the reporting and think it is important to do so… it is so wrong in so many ways that it takes changing tire types to be or even just to feel safe and comfortable…
Reporting won’t bring the needed change… the only thing that will cause meaningful change is US… if we don’t demand better, if we don’t make it a deal breaker, if we don’t start to insist, you will never get nor could you ever expect better…
Yet I talked to my dealer and another local dealer yesterday, and both say they are never even asked about what type of tires they have and they both say unequivocally they have never ever had anyone demand LT tires as a condition of sale, or even a upgrade to a LT tire…

So IMHO there is plenty of blame to go around for the cause of the problem but we are the blame for the lack of a cure… we have done precious little to pressure the tire or the trailer industries, and when buying replacements our first question is how much…

All of this even before the complications of operator error and abuse, or the country of origin…

Did you know it was shortly after the introduction of the radial tire, the importance of and the need for a cap to hold the belt in place and aid in the prevention of separation became well known… 35+ years later Carlisle announced they now use a full cap in just one line of their trailer tires???

today as far as I know this important and critical part is missing from most ST tires… this cap acts like shrink-wrap in curing, to help hold the steel belt in place and the belt edges from moving, curling and cutting inner parts of the tire…

JBarca wrote:



John

If you have not read any of these reference materials you may want to add a couple of them to your researching materials.

Click Here!

FE

John!!! Outstanding! Thank you very Much!!!

JJBIRISH wrote:
While 100% of everyone on RV.net claims to religiously maintain their tires, there has to be a reason why some have many and multiple tire failures and others have a very different experience and no tire failures…

Making the leap to LT tires and not having more trouble can not explain everything away…
Upping the wheel size, tire size, and air pressure should eliminate problems even many of the human ones… the only real difference I have been able to verify is the different speed ratings and the number of trailers I see driving in excess of the rated speed of the ST tire…

Since most tire damage is cumulative and failure can occur hours, days, or even weeks after the damage weakens the tire, it leads me to believe speed even for short distances done repetitively can be a logical explanation for if not the cause of many of those failures…

That said and knowing almost all ST tires are made in China and no one will ever convince me that quality in Chinese manufacturing can be guaranteed or even well controlled (maybe someday but not yet), knowing that and watching 3 of my OE Duros self-district in under a year… leaves just low quality in some ST tires a real a real possibility that can’t be ignored either…

Making the change to LT’s isn’t a bad move, it’s just one not available to some and very expensive for all…
When are trailer buyers going to start making good tires a deal breaker… no one will listen until that starts happening…

JJBIRISH and I seem to have similar opinions and had the same bad experience with Duro tires. Unfortunately jumping to a LT tire was not an option for me like a lot of folks. I have taken my improvements as far as possible with Maxxis 225/75R15E's. Fresh, new, 2013's went on this morning. I am fortunate that the manufacturer of my cheapo, base line Keystone Hornet TT spec'd it with running gear exceeding the total GVWR of my TT and I now have wheels, tires and axles with the same rating. With my tongue weight added in I now have a minimum 15% reserve margin and it is all I can do.

Great post, John, you covered a lot of the bases.

bigcitypopo wrote:

Great info.. My tires are 225/75/15... I am game for an LT tire... Recommendations?

bigcitypopo wrote:


so how do you make sense of it. this is the first time I'm buying trailer tires... Marathons are what are on my rig now..

Hi Big City,

Welcome to the world of tires and campers.... How do you make sense out of it??? There is no simple slam dunk answer, however research and digging, and more digging can help "you" make a better decision for "your" situation. Campers present a unique application and use difference than just the standard open deck trailer heading down the road.

I'll pass along some of my saga and you can compare to see if it is even close to your situation.

I am of the "belief" there is an tandem or tipple axle tire load sizing/application issue in the industry and that coupled with low quality of construction "can" lead to tire failure. The load sizing also exists in the single axle tire world of campers but has a different application/use issue than the tandem/triple axle setup.

First the loads, pending what brand camper and how "you" load it you may be sitting on an overloaded tire position or one with very little reserve capacity and not even realize it. Do you know for fact, backed by weight slips, that your fully loaded camper has 20% or close to 20%, extra load carrying capacity beyond the heaviest tire? Meaning not all 4 tires are loaded equal in a camper. They are not unless you are very lucky. Having a camper built dead even left to right and then loaded even left to right is not common. This results often in 4 different wheel weights on a tandem axle setup.

Then the application of the tire. Pending what brand camper you have, some brands are cutting cost more than others. Does your combined axle gross weight rating equal or surpass the GVWR of the camper? Some brands put running gear on to handle the entire GVWR while others put one step down sized and count on the truck to hold up part of the GVWR. The down sized one can get into trouble quicker in an overloaded condition and the owner never realize it. The fully sized running gear to meet the full GVWR can be in trouble too, but it has a better fighting chance.

Then there is more to the application. There is now a stronger growing understanding in the industry about needing 20% extra reserve capacity above the heaviest loaded wheel position. This is both from a capacity stand point and turning. The ST tire is suppose to be made to have the ability to "take it" on the heavy scrubbing action of tandems or triples turning. The jury is still out on this one but more and more is coming to light that it is a problem and up sizing may be one of the methods to help reduce this failure.

I want to also declare, I'm not a tire expert and I do not work in the tire industry, I'm just a machinery guy trying to figure this mess out. Do not take what I'm saying as gospel, but if wanted I can share the research that has lead me to this.

Here is some reading, not my thread but it will stir up the questions for you to sort through.
Revived Trailer Tire Thread (formerly on the 5th Wheel Forum

I have/had 4 sets of ST trailer tires. The 1st set was Maxxis ST205/75R15's C's LR. These where on my 1st TT, they matched up with a 7K GVWR. I felt they where good tires, however at year 4.5 weather checking (cracks) in the tire tread started to show up.

The 2nd set, now different camper, Maxxis ST225/75R15's, (D's LR) that lined up with a 10,000# GVWR. Since I had Maxxis the 1st time these gave the same good service, but again at year 4.5 the weather checking came again. In my case I had a severe messed up axle situation and ground off excess tread. But I never had a tire failure. BTW, these 2003 tires where Maxxis made in China at the time. Maxxis had a stint for a short time in China, they now come out of Thialand to my understanding. It is not the country that is the issue as much as the company and their quality control.

At this time my research took me to Denman ST225/75R15's D LR Express Radial, a north American made tire just in Mexico. Denman had a real good name in the heavy tire industry based out of Ohio. So I gave them a try. This ended in 3 tire failures last year for detachment of the tread from the main carcass. I thought I had it figured out when I went to the Denmans's, but I didn't. I wanted to know why and how I was having tire failures as I'm anal about speed, I tow no more than 60mph, always start at max cold side wall pressure for the towing day, cover the tires when not in use and my running gear was sized to the full GVWR of the camper and I have weighed the camper several times, just not by individual wheel location. Denman has since gone out, sold ownership from the original owner and later gone out of business. Bummer.

So I took this to maybe an RV'er extreme and tried to get a failure analysis done. Remember I'm a machinery guy who does trouble shooting for a living and I could not let go of this as I wanted to make sure I did not screw up. ST Tire Failure Analysis (Long - Lots of Pics)

And if you have a tire failure, I encourage you it file a compliant with the NHTSA, see here on how to How To File a Tire Failure Complaint

That saga lead me to making the change to LT's. This ST225/75R15 size can be a hand full as not every camper can have a drop in replacement. My choices where to upgrade tire and rims from ST15" D load range to ST15" E load range and I would of went Maxxis Or jump to 16" LT's where more US based options existed. Here is that trail, I went LT's ST225/75R15 to LT225/75R16 Conversion

We do a quantity of towing all year, I'm heavy in the TT world and a tire failure on the road can create a real bad day all the way to a life endangering situation. I felt I needed to upgrade a load range regardless of ST or LT. That drove me in my situation to this LT decision. Miss application or miss use is something the user can help, but only once they realize what to look for. Road hazards are out there for any brand/type of tire. Be on the constant look out.

The jump to 16" LT's takes work. In this evolution I also have upgraded the suspension to a rubber equalizer and shocks. The LT tire is a more "solid" towing tire and is the attribute of the LT that can give the potential ability to allow more road shock into the camper frame. I feel my suspension upgrades(which I had nothing before, rigid everything except springs...) addressed this concern.

In this LT upgrade process, I bought 4 new Maxxis ST225/75R15's D LR that I mounted on my older TT rims and moved them to my flat deck trailer which has a 9,900 # GVWR. I load the flat deck to 7,000#

My camper loaded, grosses out just under 10,000# on a 10,000# GVWR

Summing this up,

• Start by weighing each wheel location.
  Upgrade load range as needed to be 20% or more reserve capacity above the heaviest tire. Upgrade rims as needed.
• If you are staying in ST's, my recommendation is Maxxis and be prepared to change them in 5 years.
• Wait/demand the tires are 1 year or newer at the time you buy it. They can sell you a 3 year old tire as new totally legal.
• Maxxis warranty starts from the date of manufacture, not installation. Denman used to be the same.
• Pay the extra for metal valve stems or at least high pressure rubber snap in's. Do not get the standard rubber snap in stem.
• Balance the tire. I believe in this as the bearings and tire will run better. I used Dyna Beads inside the tire as I could not find anyone to balance by the lug hole on the rim.
• Cover the tires when the TT is stored, use white covers.
• Inflate to max cold side wall pressure at the start of "every" day
• Do not tow above 65mph.
• Consider a Tire Pressure Monitor system, must use metal stems
  
  
• If you make the jump to LT's do the home work and make sure the setup can handle the fender clearance and still size them correctly to have 15 to 20% excess capacity above the heaviest wheel location.
• If you winter camp in weather close to freezing, make sure your LT tire is rated for cold weather towing. All are not.

Had some time this AM so I typed trying to help a fellow camper sort out this tire mess in his head before buying. Good luck and hope this helps.

John

There is another Korean made LT tire to consider also. Nexen SV820.
It may not work for the OP, because I don't see a size as big as what his trailer has, but they do have:
185-14
195-14
195-15

These are radial LT tires, LD D ( 65 psi ).
I have no personal experience with them, but I figured I would throw this out there for those who are considering and researching options.