The End All/Be All of Non-Slide Rigs - Or No?

Hi folks. New to the truck camper world. Will be retiring late next year and have a very specific question regarding truck campers. Here's the setup to the question:

I need the most rugged, indestructible truck camper money can buy. Money isn't my concern - but toughness most certainly is. I'll be doing dispersed camping in the middle of nowhere the majority of the time and will be in a state park one day per week to dump, reload, stock up on things and prepare to head back out to a new adventure. I'll be doing this for as long as my health holds out. I'm single with no kids or pets. I'm an introvert and enjoy solitude immensely. I need a NON slide unit that is relatively indestructible off road. I'm going to be living in it full-time, so it needs to have all the creature comforts for such a lifestyle. I don't care about having a lot of space and want a realistic level of total efficiency and compactness while still being able to move about easily. If I had a choice between a five bedroom house and an ultra efficiency - I'm the type that would want the ultra efficiency. I'd like to be able to drive into a takeout store parking lot, get my goods, get back in the camper easily, unpack my groceries, load the fridge, eat lunch, take a nap and leave town without too much notice or attracting attention. I'll be doing all of this in Oregon. Don't want anything that looks fancy from the outside. Don't care about external appeal. Will be driving at most 600 miles per month - but more likely only 300 on average. I'll have 5 USB rechargeable devices (phone, tablet, inReach Explorer SOS, and a couple of e-cig batteries). For meals - am going to buy takeout pizza, Chinese food and steak/chicken dinners and refrigerate/freeze for the rest of the week so I won't have to cook (save propane). I'll be showering three times per week and doing laundry at truck stops or whatever is close when I drive into town once per week for reload. I'll be sitting in my camper in a state park once per week on shore power planning/GPSing my next adventure.

Here's what I've picked: 2018 F-350 XL Gasser Dually 4X4 Crew Cab + 2018 Northern Lite 10-2 EX CD Special Edition with Onan 2.5KW genny, AC, AGM house batts and 160W solar. The truck has a 300W 110V outlet with heavy duty alternator built in. Again - I'm not retiring until next year - hence the 2018 dates. Here's why I chose this setup:

Don't need nor want expense of diesel engine. I won't be driving that many miles. The camper weighs at most 4300lbs wet and stocked. The truck has a 6500lb payload capacity - so I'm well under the limit. The camper is clam shell design and all fiberglass structure (a boat basically). The curtains are built into the frame of the windows (don't smack around while driving). Will never have delam or rot issues with structural integrity. Fresh water cap is 36 gallons. Cabinetry hardware is way better than other manufacturers, as is the wood cabinetry itself. Has 6' 8" interior height (I'm 6' 3"). Dinette table can be slid towards or away from my gut according to preference. Great internal storage for a non-slide truck camper.

So my simple question is this: Am I picking the right rig based upon the stated criteria - or is there something even tougher and more mobile out there that I'm missing? Note that I'm not interested in anything highly unusual like some of those custom extreme monster thingies. Want to keep it within reason and stay with a low profile truck/camper pair.

Trying to be sure I didn't miss something else that's even more rugged and mobile. Looked at Lance, Arctic Fox, Eagle Cap, Host and Adventurer already. All seem to have weaknesses I'd prefer to avoid - most especially slides. Maybe there's a Northern Lite past or current owner out there that knows of something better.

Thanks!

Truck Campers

kohldad
Explorer III
Nov 17, 2016
If I didn't want to "waste" money, I would drive my wife's Camry back and forth the 20 miles/day to work while letting her drive the truck 20 miles/week for her errands. But since I enjoy driving the truck more than the car, it isn't wasting money.

Same logic for driving a gas truck versus a diesel truck can be used and was part of my basis. I get value from not being worried about major repair bill if something goes wrong, from not listening to the noise of the diesel, from not having to deal with the fumes from the fuel/exhaust, etc.

While the cost (hard $) may be more for the gasser in the long run over the diesel, the value (what I think it's worth in money/enjoyment) we get from the gasser is less in the long run. I buy things based on their value, not cost.

Same reason why I spend $20 on a steak diner versus $5 on a PB&J sandwich. They both give me the nutrients I need, but I enjoy the steak diner enough that I get a higher return (value) than the PB&J. Does that mean I'm wasting my money on the steak diner?
d3500ram
Explorer III
Nov 17, 2016
A $1,000 savings difference (of fuel type) for a certain vehicle comparison is only good for the person making that choice.

To impose that same viewpoint on another RV'er whose situation is completely different is not a valid comparison whose carrying capacities, towing needs, etc, are not the same ... and to imply that someone who disagrees is "happy" about "wasting" money should send the difference "to a PayPal account" is just downright ridiculous!
adamis
Nomad II
Nov 17, 2016
kohldad I appreciate your common sense approach to the problem. Use a spreadsheet and put in your best guesstimates to figure out what works best for you. That was really the primary point of my post in this thread, that before you really make your decision do the math and figure out what pencils out best for your situation.

In response to your last statement about your possible future truck purpose...

I'm seriously wondering what manufacturer will first offer a diesel electric series hybrid. Paring a small turbo charged 4 cylinder turbo diesel (or gas) with electric drive motors and a battery bank to give the best power to mileage possible. It seems like this is an obvious progression of the never ending hp and torque race the big three are currently locked in. I personally hope that if I do purchase another heavy duty truck it will be something along this line of technology. 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

Also something to consider is if a company will ever adapt an add-on kit to add 4x4 capability to a 2x4 trucks using electric wheel motors that can be easily added to the front wheels and a battery bank / controller added underneath the bottom of the pickup bed. Yes it wouldn't be true 4x4 capability but the way I see it, there are lot's of people (myself included) that don't intend to do serious off-roading but would like the capability for driving in snow and icy conditions. Might this concept also becoming an option from the big three as they look to save weight and simplify the drive train while still offering customers a midpoint of 4x4 capability without the cost and maintenance of a true system.
covered_wagon
Explorer
Nov 17, 2016
Koldad, based on your experience then how much have I saved, driving my daily driver, same CTD for 20 years and 380,000 miles? I just had to rebuild the trans last Feb.. Everything else done to it is brakes and filters over the 20 years. I avoid dealerships like plague.
kohldad
Explorer III
Nov 17, 2016
I weighed the differences between a gas and diesel. Created a very detailed spreadsheet calculating things like oil changes, filters, mpg, purchase, resale, miles (empty and with camper), diesel premium (15% in my area), $/gal ($4 at the time), and anything else I could think of that would be different between the two. Both vehicles came with the same 5yr/100k mile power train warranty though I could have gone to a different dealer for a lifetime engine warranty on the gasser. For the diesel numbers, I used 9 years of detailed records from an 04 Dodge CTD manual transmission. For the gasser with automatic I used an average of the worse numbers I could find. After all said and done, the gasser over 6 years and 120k was going to cost me about $4,000 more.

I still choose the 6.4 Hemi because it is better suited for handling the short daily drives I do in between my camping trips. Yet it has the power needed to handle the load.

I now have almost two years and 35k miles on the truck and feel my decision was right. Using the exact same spreadsheet I used to make my decision, it now uses actual numbers. My camper mileage is 22% higher than expected, my empty mileage is about 5% worse than expected. Gas prices dropped about 40%. After all the calc, my first two years of ownership has cost me about $250 more than if I had bought a diesel. Resale difference compared to purchase cost difference is negligible.

I much prefer the quiet of the gas engine (We now listen to the radio) and we don't have to let the turbo cool down when I make a stop (and I stop often at times). Have never missed the power of the diesel because I don't carry a very heavy load or tow much. Even with the setup in my sig, it handles it well running in overdrive and very rarely see above 2,500 rpms.

I'm not saying if you only do x get a gasser. I'm just saying do the calcs, think about how you will use it, think about what you feel comfortable doing, and then get what you decide is the best for you. Be happy at your decision and understand it isn't the best decision for everyone.

My first new truck was a diesel and it was the right one for what I planned on doing with it considering what was available at the time. My second one is a gasser because it is the right one for what I'm doing now and what was available when I ordered it. Who knows what my next one will be, maybe an electric mobility scooter?
covered_wagon
Explorer
Nov 17, 2016
Difficult to put a price on the feel and sweet sound of a diesel truck.
Wikel
Explorer
Nov 17, 2016
Grit dog wrote:
Wikel, unless that prem maint you quoted includes things not listed there, that's just the dealer soaking someone more with a diesel.

Totally agree the prices for Diesel were pretty high. Would have to get the VIN to get a quote direct from Ford for the same. Might lookup a VIN on both a see what that looks like.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Nov 16, 2016
Wikel, unless that prem maint you quoted includes things not listed there, that's just the dealer soaking someone more with a diesel.
Aside from taking more oil and a little more for filters, all that other stuff is the same on an apples to apples truck.
Now the fact that extended warranty for the power train is so close in price, either the gasses are getting screwed or .....because there are a bunch more expensive failure prone or at least possible, parts on a Diesel engine than a gasser.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Nov 16, 2016
Tizi wrote:
OK, what is not being factored in is the weight difference between a gas engine truck and diesel. The gas truck will weight about 500 pounds less. In addition, when I bought my truck, I got a lifetime power-train warranty. It was not offered on the diesel. In the end, I am super happy with my Hemi. It runs great and does what I need it to do.

And a fine truck with a lifetime warranty is hard to beat, but the weight difference is only a detriment maybe on faster wear on the front ball joints. Otherwise it's accounted for in fuel mileage.
Unless one is intent on staying within gvw limits on a vehicle that is class limited for the intended load.
Wikel
Explorer
Nov 16, 2016
adamis wrote:

My caveats... I've not looked at the difference in repair costs beyond 100k (less than that is covered under warranty)...

Adamis,
That's a lot of work you've done and thanks! You mentioned "I've not looked at the difference in repair costs beyond 100k" but I didn't see that even up to 100k. Did I miss that?

Something else for thought. Extended warranty coverage 5/150k 4X2:
Diesel = 4,765
Gas = 4,540
Another $200 there added to Diesel

I saw somewhere today prices for Premium Maintenance plans but can't remember where it was again :/ Figure just using the Ford maintenance plan as a baseline, you could figure out a rough maintenance difference between the two types.

Update: Found the maintenance plan on www.floodfordesp.com/premium_maintenance.php

Diesel Vehicles(Recommended Oil) 5 year/125k = $4585
Gas/Hybrid Ford Vehicles(Recommended Oil) 5 year/125k = $1995

Premium Maintenance Gives You
Peace of Mind from Ford Motor Company.
This comprehensive plan provides premium protection
for your vehicle with routine inspections, preventive care
and replacement of normal wear items that require
periodic attention, including:
Engine oil and filter changes
Multi-point inspections
Tire rotations
Brake pads and linings
Shock absorbers/struts
Spark plugs
Clutch discs
Engine belts, coolant hoses, clamps and o-ring seals
Wiper blades

Looks like the gasser gets a much better rate than the diesel. So same price for focus as for F350 4x4 drw gasser? Could be wrong and I'm sure it's cheaper to do it yourself but again it's a rough gauge swag.