ShinerBock wrote:librty02 wrote:
Yeah where I am the price for fuel is a huge factor...right now diesel is @ $3.49 gallon while gasoline is 2.78...in the summer months gas will stay the same and the diesel fuel will jump to as much as 3.89 per gallon costing $1 more per gallon than gasoline....we see it here every summer. Pa diesel fuel tax is insane and it would never be an option for me to own a diesel over a gas truck unless I towed over 20k constantly which I don't or you were just dumb and loved throwing money away...for the avg Rv'r here towing around 12 to 13k rigs and using their truck as a daily driver the diesel just doesn't make sense...would I love to own one sure but not at that cost....unless some huge raise came about I am unaware of.
What city or county? I only ask because I am not seeing the same data.
WASHINGTON AVERAGE GAS PRICES
ShinerBock wrote:mich800 wrote:
Seriously you are going to drive yourself insane. You are seeking an answer that fits neatly in a Venn diagram. A primary tennent of economics is that of the rational consumer.
"A consumer is rational if he decides for the option that maximizes his/her utility."
You have your hook into this theory that choosing gas over diesel or vise versa somehow is primarily derived from this magical ability to perform a "single" specific task. And deviating from this option in your purchasing decision for someone else makes little sense. For every normative argument you make I or anyone else can make an opposite or different argument and neither would be incorrect because it reflects "their" rational decision.
All I did is make this one comment....ShinerBock wrote:
Not sure why anyone cares about the 7.3L. According to the HD gas owners here, they don't need more power which is why they bought the gas engine instead of the diesel. So why would an engine with more power that you will have to pay more for matter now?
....based on past comments I have seen here and other forums and it stirred a beehive. I just don't get the logic that one has to need the added power or has to recoup the cost when upgrading to a diesel, but not with any other gas engine option or even any other option like a Tradesman/XL to a Laramie/Lariat. Why is the diesel engine option the only one that has to be justified by needing it and recouping money, but the others don't?
librty02 wrote:
Yeah where I am the price for fuel is a huge factor...right now diesel is @ $3.49 gallon while gasoline is 2.78...in the summer months gas will stay the same and the diesel fuel will jump to as much as 3.89 per gallon costing $1 more per gallon than gasoline....we see it here every summer. Pa diesel fuel tax is insane and it would never be an option for me to own a diesel over a gas truck unless I towed over 20k constantly which I don't or you were just dumb and loved throwing money away...for the avg Rv'r here towing around 12 to 13k rigs and using their truck as a daily driver the diesel just doesn't make sense...would I love to own one sure but not at that cost....unless some huge raise came about I am unaware of.
mich800 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:goducks10 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:goducks10 wrote:
How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.
Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.
I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.
How do you know what I need or don't need?
So a half ton F150 will not pull your 9,500 trailer? If not, wouldn't a 6.2L SD? If so, then you don't need the power of a 7.3L. However, you would spend the money to get one because you want one just like most diesel engine owners do.
Seriously you are going to drive yourself insane. You are seeking an answer that fits neatly in a Venn diagram. A primary tennent of economics is that of the rational consumer.
"A consumer is rational if he decides for the option that maximizes his/her utility."
You have your hook into this theory that choosing gas over diesel or vise versa somehow is primarily derived from this magical ability to perform a "single" specific task. And deviating from this option in your purchasing decision for someone else makes little sense. For every normative argument you make I or anyone else can make an opposite or different argument and neither would be incorrect because it reflects "their" rational decision.
ShinerBock wrote:
Not sure why anyone cares about the 7.3L. According to the HD gas owners here, they don't need more power which is why they bought the gas engine instead of the diesel. So why would an engine with more power that you will have to pay more for matter now?
ShinerBock wrote:goducks10 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:goducks10 wrote:
How about I put it this way. I tow a 9500# TT. For my lifestyle I don't need a diesel anymore. My truck sits for weeks at a time. I would like about 50 more HP and 75 lbs more of TQ. That would be about perfect for my camping style. What I don't need to do is spend $10,495 for a diesel that's overkill for my situation.
I think you're missing the point of gas owners. Maybe I'm wrong but my guess is that most just want a decent amount of an HP/TQ increase and don't need the massive power output of a diesel at the cost of the option when it's not something thats being used enough to validate.
Why do one have to "need" the power of a diesel in their justification for it, but would turn around and buy a more powerful and expensive gas engine even though the base gas engine will do just fine? You don't need a 7.3L or an addition 50 hp or 754 lb-ft to pull a 9,500 lb trailer. Heck, you don't even need an SD to do that. But I bet you want it just like you want more power. No need to justify things by saying you don't need it if you end up buying something you don't need in the first place. You don't need a 9,500 lb RV, but I bet you spent more than what a diesel upgrade costs because you wanted one.
I just don't get why needs and recouping your money always comes up when talking about a diesel engine upgrade, but never does when talking about a gas engine upgrade.
How do you know what I need or don't need?
So a half ton F150 will not pull your 9,500 trailer? If not, wouldn't a 6.2L SD? If so, then you don't need the power of a 7.3L. However, you would spend the money to get one because you want one just like most diesel engine owners do.
librty02 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:goducks10 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
The 7.3L gas option is $1705, and the 6.7L diesel option is $10,495.
That gets my attention.
:):)
Yes, but 100k miles and 5 years later, the trade in value plus the fuel mileage will pay for most(if not all) the $10,495 so you are essentially adding power for free. That will not be the case with the 7.3L over the 6.2L unless it has much better fuel economy. You only typically get around 70-80% of your money back from optional items such as engines, 4wd, and trim packages on trade in/resale. If the 7.3L uses more fuel, then that cost increases overtime.
There is also the case of maintenance if it is like the 5.7L and 6.4L in the Ram. Because of the special oil required due to the 6.4L having MDS, it makes maintenance cost a lot more than the 5.7L and more inline with what is cost with the Cummins for both fuel/oil filter changes.
However, my comment was based on the reasoning used by gaser owners who say they do not "need" more power. If this were true, then they would not "need" a 7.3L.
I'd like more power but I don't need 400HP and 1000TQ @ $10,495.
So you are saying that you don't need 400hp(even though it is 475 hp), but you like the 430 hp that the 7.3L makes? That does not make sense.
Also, I would bet you that uf you actually did the math with resale/trad in, the difference between the two is less than $2k over the course of 5 years and 100k miles. In fact, you are likely to spend more on the 6.2L to the 7.3L upgrade than you would with the 7.3L to 6.7L upgrade when all things are considered.
So I went and did a 5 yr 60000 miles cost analysis.
Diesel at 3.29 per gallon
Gas at 2.69 per gallon
Over the 5 yrs 60k Diesel will cost $1200 more due to DEF
5yr loan 60k diesel costs 66283 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest
5yr loan 48.9k gas costs 53993 with 6% tax and 3.99% interest
Diesel is 12290 more
Trade in Values for a 2015 Ford F-350 Lariat Crew Diesel vs Gas all same exact options but 6.7 diesel and engine block heater with 60000 miles on them
Diesel trade value 35490
Gas trade value 28427
Diesel worth 7487 more....7063 + 6% trade tax advantage
Diesel upfront cost of 12300 - 7487 = 4813 + 1200(fuel)= 6013 more to own a Diesel over that 5 yr period over the same gas truck.
No maintenance in these figures at all just straight cost of loan tax and fuel
ShinerBock wrote:goducks10 wrote:ShinerBock wrote:NRALIFR wrote:
The 7.3L gas option is $1705, and the 6.7L diesel option is $10,495.
That gets my attention.
:):)
Yes, but 100k miles and 5 years later, the trade in value plus the fuel mileage will pay for most(if not all) the $10,495 so you are essentially adding power for free. That will not be the case with the 7.3L over the 6.2L unless it has much better fuel economy. You only typically get around 70-80% of your money back from optional items such as engines, 4wd, and trim packages on trade in/resale. If the 7.3L uses more fuel, then that cost increases overtime.
There is also the case of maintenance if it is like the 5.7L and 6.4L in the Ram. Because of the special oil required due to the 6.4L having MDS, it makes maintenance cost a lot more than the 5.7L and more inline with what is cost with the Cummins for both fuel/oil filter changes.
However, my comment was based on the reasoning used by gaser owners who say they do not "need" more power. If this were true, then they would not "need" a 7.3L.
I'd like more power but I don't need 400HP and 1000TQ @ $10,495.
So you are saying that you don't need 400hp(even though it is 475 hp), but you like the 430 hp that the 7.3L makes? That does not make sense.
Also, I would bet you that uf you actually did the math with resale/trad in, the difference between the two is less than $2k over the course of 5 years and 100k miles. In fact, you are likely to spend more on the 6.2L to the 7.3L upgrade than you would with the 7.3L to 6.7L upgrade when all things are considered.
