Tires

rbpru wrote:
Nobody has a monopoly on shoddy workmanship, China,Japan,Mexico,Canada and the U.S. manufacturers have all produced junk from time to time.

These days if third world nations only produced junk, 3/4th of the items in our homes would not work.

Like it or not, we are in a global market, that includes TT tires.

I think the general data available (and certainly my experiences) show that there is a much higher probabliity of poor quality products coming from China compared to other sources. I am not saying that all products from China are poor quality. I have some excellent LED flashlights made there. (I have also had poor performance from imported wireless weather stations and now use a high quality domestic brand with significantly better performance and reliability.) I can provide you other product examples if you would like.

I have however, had three instances of ST tires suffering tread separation causing trailer damage and have had no instances since switching to domestic LT tires in 2007. Prior to that on a smaller trailer, I actually ran MIchelin passenger tires inflated a couple of pounds higher than max listed on the sidewall instead of the load range C ST tires since I could not find 14 inch LT tires. I used these tires for several years for thousands of miles most during high summer temps with no issues. I trusted the load range B tires from a reputable manaufacturer more than what was available at that time from import ST tires.

According to one poster on this forum, Carlisle has finally taken steps to address the ST reliability issue by adding a nylon cap. This simple modification increases the maximum speed to greater than 65 MPH which is an indication of increased margin. I am guessing that this change was prompted by all the tire failures many have experienced.

Many posters on this forum have also indicated that they have had great success with Maxxis ST tires which are also inport tires. This indicates that at least one offshore company does take consistent tire quality seriously. We don't have to use products from those other companies that don't maintain consistent quality.

Dick

Nobody has a monopoly on shoddy workmanship, China,Japan,Mexico,Canada and the U.S. manufacturers have all produced junk from time to time.

These days if third world nations only produced junk, 3/4th of the items in our homes would not work.

Like it or not, we are in a global market, that includes TT tires.

RinconVTR wrote:

rbpru wrote:
Hunting dog,

Your analysis is good except that the LT is tested longer and tougher because it is expected to do more. LTs are for light trucks, they are expected to withstand the rigors of acceleration, braking, steering torque, off road use, and a host of other things that a TT tire will never have to endure.

An ST tire is also designed to withstand braking but its principle design feature is the resistance to the heavy sidewall strain of a TT and other trailer types. LT are not tested for this because it is not expected in their use.

To test an ST to LT standards is the same as mounting LT tires on an Indy racing car and expecting top performance. You are asking it to do something it was not designed for. Likewise an Indy racing slick tire probably would not make a very good light truck tire.

The tire industry looked at the requirements needed for trailer applications a designed the ST to do the job. If the tire industry thought an LT was a good choice for trailers they would be selling them instead. The cost is about the same and they already make dozens of LT models for about any light truck application.

It is the same with “P” tires on half ton pick-ups. Tens of millions are sold and replaced every year. It is true that type P tires are not as durable as an LT, they cannot handle the load of an LT but type P tires work fine for their intended applications.

If switching to LTs makes a person sleep better because they survive and bank of tests, then but all means that is what that person should have.

Personally I prefer a tire specifically designed for the application.

NICE! What he said!!!

Also note, what been posted about standardized testing is IN OTHER WORDS...are MINIMUM TESTING REQUIREMENTS.

Thing is each manufacture has their very own requirements and procedures, most of which test well beyond the minimum "standards".

Which means it makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE WHERE THE TIRE IS MADE.

What matters is the standards each tire company demands of its manufacture or manufacturing facilities. Where ever they may be.

It most certainly does make a difference where a tire is manufactured if there is not tight control on the manufacturing process at the factory.

Just because a sample of tires meets test standards does not insure that all tires produced at that factory meet the standards over time. That is the issue we are dealing with.

In addition several posters have indicated that their trailer came from the factory with LT tires so I submit that there is no reason an LT tire will not perform better than a poorly made ST tire.

Dick

4X4Dodger wrote:

snip

"ST" tires are also found on tractor trailers (although much bigger the most common size being 22.5's These are some of the longest wearing best tires you can buy, especially if they are made by a reputable company. Just being an "ST" tire is NO indication that the tire is bad or that you should automatically switch to an LT.

snip

"ST" is a designation used by the Tire & Rim Association, a US organization that publishes dimensional standards and the Load Inflation . The largest ST type tire shown in the TRA yearbook is an ST235/85R16 so I think you may have confused "Truck-Bus" type tires with Special Trailer type tires.

rbpru wrote:
Hunting dog,

Your analysis is good except that the LT is tested longer and tougher because it is expected to do more. LTs are for light trucks, they are expected to withstand the rigors of acceleration, braking, steering torque, off road use, and a host of other things that a TT tire will never have to endure.

An ST tire is also designed to withstand braking but its principle design feature is the resistance to the heavy sidewall strain of a TT and other trailer types. LT are not tested for this because it is not expected in their use.

To test an ST to LT standards is the same as mounting LT tires on an Indy racing car and expecting top performance. You are asking it to do something it was not designed for. Likewise an Indy racing slick tire probably would not make a very good light truck tire.

The tire industry looked at the requirements needed for trailer applications a designed the ST to do the job. If the tire industry thought an LT was a good choice for trailers they would be selling them instead. The cost is about the same and they already make dozens of LT models for about any light truck application.

It is the same with “P” tires on half ton pick-ups. Tens of millions are sold and replaced every year. It is true that type P tires are not as durable as an LT, they cannot handle the load of an LT but type P tires work fine for their intended applications.

If switching to LTs makes a person sleep better because they survive and bank of tests, then but all means that is what that person should have.

Personally I prefer a tire specifically designed for the application.

NICE! What he said!!!

Also note, what been posted about standardized testing is IN OTHER WORDS...are MINIMUM TESTING REQUIREMENTS.

Thing is each manufacture has their very own requirements and procedures, most of which test well beyond the minimum "standards".

Which means it makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE WHERE THE TIRE IS MADE.

What matters is the standards each tire company demands of its manufacture or manufacturing facilities. Where ever they may be.

dclark1946 wrote:

....snip.......

Most who have switched to LT tires of the same load range have had no more catastrophic failures driving the same way with the same trailers.

Dick

To the OP, if you have stuck around thru all the information ( both good and bad ) presented, then my suggestion is that Dick made the most useful comment in the entire thread.

So, my thoughts are, if you buy a trailer with 14", consider Kumho 857. If 15" consider GoodYear Cargo G26 ( both these tires are available from tirerack ).
If 16", you have many options of quality LT tires to choose from. Pick a good highway rib design, and choose a tire manufacturer. There are several ( Michelin, Bridgestone, Firestone, BFG, just to name a few ).

I just replaced all 4 of the original tires on my 2010 TT. They were Chinese made. I put on 6 ply Maxxis M8008(my wheels are only rated for 50psi)last weekend. The Maxxis tires say made in Thailand.

Putting on the new Maxxis tire:


This is what I did to the old tires. It should grow some good tomatoes!

The problem isn't whether or not China can put out good products. They can, just as good as other places. The problem in China is all the cost cutting that SOME Chinese do.

Some Chinese plants cut corners and will dump the cheapest stuff possible on the American market. Note all the problems with contaminated pet foods, and building materials. And I think the same thing was/is happening with trailer tires. In the beginning when there was so many problems with Chinese ST tires, I believe it was because tons of tire companies were turning out as many ST tires as they could with little regard for quality.

That said, I would think now, the 2nd time GY Marathon began making tires in China, the company closely controlled quality control and I suspect a Chinese made Marathon would be a decent tire.

4X4Dodger wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:
There are so many overly broad and irrational statements here regarding ST tires, Tires from China, Age of the tires, etc that it really makes me wonder just how much actual thought goes into this.

Some of the best and highest rated tires in the world are made in China for more than a few of the worlds biggest well known tire manufacturers. Simply being made in china is NO indication of the tires actual quality.

"ST" tires are also found on tractor trailers (although much bigger the most common size being 22.5's These are some of the longest wearing best tires you can buy, especially if they are made by a reputable company. Just being an "ST" tire is NO indication that the tire is bad or that you should automatically switch to an LT.

Maxxis Tires I believe are probably made overseas but Maxxis refuses to say where. SOME of their tires may be made in the US but I am sure not all of them. Now to me this is not a problem, but it is something for you guys who preach "Made in China is a bad thing" to think about.

The number of things that can affect the life of your trailer tire are legion...First and most important your trailer has NO shock absorbers...if it did your tires would take less of a beating and last longer. Then there is axle alignment, underinflation, curbing, out of balance and on and on. But so many rush to blame the poor tire.

To the OP: I wouldnt worry so much, take whats on it and keep them inflated, make sure the axles are properly alined before you take delivery of the trailer and that the tires are balanced. Then off you go and ENJOY your new trailer.

Last Maxxis I had were made it Thiland. It is printed on the tires. so not hard to find. And no matter what any one says. 4 years is all I will run any TT tire. The one that shreaded was a Marathon, and when we took the other 3 off. they were cracked in the tread, and the tread was so crooked the tires bounced as they rolled across the shop floor. Studies. Tests, opinions mean nothing when you see for your self what happens.

Thanks for that info. I was sure it was somewhere in Asia. I have never gotten a look at a pair of Maxxis up close. I did email them and they responded that they have several plants around the world including the USA but were not willing to elaborate.

And for all of those that bash China products consider this. The poster above says his MAXXIS tires are Made in Thailand. Well Thailand assembles Toyotas, Fords and many other cars and has a huge manufacturing industry. They are skilled and produce high quality products...mostly for the Asian Market. Why Thailand? Cheaper than China. and much of this kind of MFG is now moving to ever cheaper places like Cambodia Where Ford is assembling it's new SUV for the Asian market.

To Those mindlessly Bashing China at every opportunity:
Just a further note on China, China has a higher literacy rate, higher average education level, and in general a much better educated workforce than Thailand and most certainly Cambodia. If you guys who were bashing China all the time had even an inkling of what is really going on in the world of Manufacturing you'd be dangerous.

Terryallan wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:
There are so many overly broad and irrational statements here regarding ST tires, Tires from China, Age of the tires, etc that it really makes me wonder just how much actual thought goes into this.

Some of the best and highest rated tires in the world are made in China for more than a few of the worlds biggest well known tire manufacturers. Simply being made in china is NO indication of the tires actual quality.

"ST" tires are also found on tractor trailers (although much bigger the most common size being 22.5's These are some of the longest wearing best tires you can buy, especially if they are made by a reputable company. Just being an "ST" tire is NO indication that the tire is bad or that you should automatically switch to an LT.

Maxxis Tires I believe are probably made overseas but Maxxis refuses to say where. SOME of their tires may be made in the US but I am sure not all of them. Now to me this is not a problem, but it is something for you guys who preach "Made in China is a bad thing" to think about.

The number of things that can affect the life of your trailer tire are legion...First and most important your trailer has NO shock absorbers...if it did your tires would take less of a beating and last longer. Then there is axle alignment, underinflation, curbing, out of balance and on and on. But so many rush to blame the poor tire.

To the OP: I wouldnt worry so much, take whats on it and keep them inflated, make sure the axles are properly alined before you take delivery of the trailer and that the tires are balanced. Then off you go and ENJOY your new trailer.

Last Maxxis I had were made it Thiland. It is printed on the tires. so not hard to find. And no matter what any one says. 4 years is all I will run any TT tire. The one that shreaded was a Marathon, and when we took the other 3 off. they were cracked in the tread, and the tread was so crooked the tires bounced as they rolled across the shop floor. Studies. Tests, opinions mean nothing when you see for your self what happens.

Thanks for that info. I was sure it was somewhere in Asia. I have never gotten a look at a pair of Maxxis up close. I did email them and they responded that they have several plants around the world including the USA but were not willing to elaborate.

And for all of those that bash China products consider this. The poster above says his MAXXIS tires are Made in Thailand. Well Thailand assembles Toyotas, Fords and many other cars and has a huge manufacturing industry. They are skilled and produce high quality products...mostly for the Asian Market. Why Thailand? Cheaper than China. and much of this kind of MFG is now moving to ever cheaper places like Cambodia Where Ford is assembling it's new SUV for the Asian market.

To Those mindlessly Bashing China at every opportunity:
Just a further note on China, China has a higher literacy rate, higher average education level, and in general a much better educated workforce than Thailand and most certainly Cambodia. If you guys who were bashing China all the time had even an inkling of what is really going on in the world of Manufacturing you'd be dangerous.

Gdetrailer wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Please do a search using the function at the top of the page. There are dozens of threads on this subject. General consesus ifnthe tirenis made in China they are junk.

Wrong.

According to the "consensus" of this forum, EVERY "ST" or Special Trailer" tire is "junk" and that EVERYONE should go to LT load range "E"s even for popups..

The "consensus" of this forum highly ignores that OVERLOADING AND UNDERINFLATION of trailer tires are more likely to cause problems with blowouts..

I have towed with what this forum would consider as THE MOST WORST BRAND (Carlisle) ST tires for the better part of 15 years without a blowout.. Just in the last couple of years my local tire shop didn't have the Carlisle and I ended up with some other china import..

My "secret" is that even though my TT has 7,200 lbs capacity, I DON'T LOAD 7,200 lbs in it!

I have a flat bed trailer which has 10,000 lb capacity.. I DON'T LOAD IT TO 10,000 lbs either!

My second "secret" is that I INFLATE THE TIRES ON THE TRAILERS TO THE MAX SIDEWALL PRESSURE NO MATTER WHETHER EMPTY OR FULL LOAD.

OP, GO AND TOW.

Flats and blowouts do happen and often are way outside your control.. Road debris like wood, steel, nails, screws and bolts often are not easily avoided and can cause damage to your tire that may be hidden.. Large deep potholes, jumping or scraping curbs can also cause hidden damage..

Keep a spare, make sure you have a jack, some blocking and a wheel wrench that will work for your trailer and don't worry about what type of tire is "best".. They ALL can and do fail..

What many are overlooking in this discussion is the variation in quality of the off shore trailer tires. Some hold up and others come apart even with careful monitoring tire pressure, holding speed at or below 65 and not overloading. It was just a few years ago that a Chinese tire company was found guilty of leaving out a critical step in passenger tires leading to many tread separation failures. During the peak of the Carlisle ST tire debacle the Casita factory finally switched to Goodyear because there were so many failures.

Most who have switched to LT tires of the same load range have had no more catastrophic failures driving the same way with the same trailers.

Dick