Today's Tuners
Are today's tuners on diesels reliable and trouble free? If properly installed, does more power negatively impact the longevity of a properly maintained engine? Thanks in advance.
Mike
Mike
Forum Discussion
TECMike wrote:
Yep, talked with Brian the other day. They still are doing tuning. Also he said they are doing 6.0 transmissions five speed transmissions, in addition to the old four-speed, bullet proof workhorse he built for me five years ago.
Really about all I am after is just enough power to prevent downshifting on moderate hills and grades towing.
Our Ford Severe Duty AIS alone gave additional power. I noticed it immediately after I had it installed. That was a great engine upgrade, not to mention best filtering on the planet.
I have given aftermarket exhausts a lot thought. However, sometimes me and my wife pull ten hours on the road and one wants all the quietness inside the cab he/she can get.
While they certainly will reduce EGT (exhaust gas temperatures) I have not read of any true wheel hp or torque increases.
So I do not want any drone what-so-ever. My engine already scares prairie dogs off the road. But its engine is the sound of freedom for us!
A good exhaust with a high perf muffler is as quiet as stock inside the cab. I recently did a 3600 mile round trip and coming home I ran 17 hrs on the second day. Never heard it at all. The AIS is the best filtering there is. Good with mild mods but doesn't flow enough for high hp with upwards of 23/24 psi boost.ib516 wrote:
I have had zero trouble with my Hypertech tuner. I highly recommend you check them out. Been using it for 4 years now towing & not towing. It's on the milder side, designed for towing. Would be perfect for your 2002 7.3L.
The Predator tuner I have has a "tow" setting, but it's more designed for performance. On the highest level it adds serious power, at the expense of high EGT and rear tire wear :W.
I guess we are still talking 7.3, and it obvious you have never ran custom tunes and compared to the off the shelf tuners such as Hypertech, Superchip etc. If you had you wouldn't be pushing Hypertech. I have a Superchip ,and doubt I could give it away to someone that is in the know about custom tunes.- I put a turbo back 4 inch on my 04 and it is as quiet as the stock one. I use gibson exhausts and there is is no 'drone'. a friend put an exhaust on his dodge and it does drive ya nuts. His wife rode with us for a few miles and said it was so much nicer than the dodge quiet and comfortable.
They said about 7-10 hp gains are possible with the exhaust, but I run the OEM air filter so a free is exhaust is really all I added before the hypermax. wintersun wrote:
Most people use a tuner to get more horsepower out of an engine and the result is a blown engine or failed injectors from fuel starvation or blown tranmissions and these guys are not even towing or carrying a load in the bed.
Completely false. I have been running tuned diesels for over 5 years, towing heavy loads and running empty, and have never had any of the problems you mention.
Emissions controls do cause more fuel to be consumed in return for less pollution out the tailpipe. You can remove this equipment and violate federal and state laws and certainly do no favors for your fellow citizens with the soot you put out the tailpipe but lots of people could care less about anyone else so there is a big market for kits to do this.
I agree that the newer diesels (2007.5+) are more of a challenge for the tuning companies, and what you didn't mention is that you do put your powertrain warranty in jeopardy if you use a tuner on a truck that is still under warranty.
A friend with a 2005 truck with the Duramax LLY engine saw a 1.5 MPG gain or about 20% with a tuner when pulling a 13,000 lb. trailer around the USA. Over a distance of 40,000 he would have saved enough in fuel costs to recouped the cost of the tuner. He sold the truck before he put the 40K miles so for him it was a net loss on his tuner investment.
But he enjoyed that extra power for xx miles without an issue? What's that worth?
With newer trucks I have a difficult time believing that one guy at a tuner shop can extract better fuel economy from a diesel engine than the manufacturer's hundreds of automotive engineers are able to provide. The big three compete on power and also on MPG so they do everything they can do that is legal and not going to reduce the reliability or durability of their engines while improving fuel economy. You can see this with the claims by Ram for its 2014 trucks which are very impressive if they prove to be close to accurate.
The OEMs are also restrained by things the aftermarket isn't. How did Ford increase the output of the 6.7L Diesel after it first came out? Answer: They wrote a different calibration for the engine computer. A 390hp/735tq engine becomes 400hp/800tq with no mechanical changes to the truck....same as any other tuning company. Did that shorten the life of the Superduty's engine or transmission?
Have you have ever used a tuner on a diesel truck, or run a tuned diesel?- Yep, talked with Brian the other day. They still are doing tuning. Also he said they are doing 6.0 transmissions five speed transmissions, in addition to the old four-speed, bullet proof workhorse he built for me five years ago.
Really about all I am after is just enough power to prevent downshifting on moderate hills and grades towing.
Our Ford Severe Duty AIS alone gave additional power. I noticed it immediately after I had it installed. That was a great engine upgrade, not to mention best filtering on the planet.
I have given aftermarket exhausts a lot thought. However, sometimes me and my wife pull ten hours on the road and one wants all the quietness inside the cab he/she can get.
While they certainly will reduce EGT (exhaust gas temperatures) I have not read of any true wheel hp or torque increases.
So I do not want any drone what-so-ever. My engine already scares prairie dogs off the road. But its engine is the sound of freedom for us! Lantley wrote:
cekkk wrote:
I have babied my 7.3 since I bought it, but even with the simple additions to it I still felt it was not providing sufficient power on the long steep pulls we have near our home as well as those heading north out of Phoenix's valley.
I finally purchased a Superchips Flashpaq tuner not yet in my signature, a couple weeks ago and found a great improvement pulling our TT up Ute Pass last weekend and even showed increased MPGs on that 250 mile round trip over past trips without the tuner.
We'll be leaving on a longer trip next week where the numbers will have more meaning.
If I don't begin to push the engine hard and just take benefit from the increased hp and torque on hills I don't anticipate any negative effect on the engine.
There will not likely be a negative impact on the engine however don't be surprised if there is a negative impact on the transmission.
The trans. is the weak link in the 7.3 drivetrain. If you have problems down the road, a rebuilt tranny by Brian's Truck Stop BTS will give you a bullet proof drive train.
I disagree the weak link is not the 4R100, IMO is was cooling, and not the transmission . I own the early 99, bought is new just over 15 years ago. Ran a programmer or tuner for the past 10 years since I started towing heavy. 10 years ago I went to larger exhaust intake , gauges , and an auxiliary transmission cooler, after a year went to the 6.0 transmission cooler , along with the 6.0 intercooler. The auxiliary did okay ,but the transmission still got warmer then I wanted at slow speeds around 200-210 ,now I can't get over 190 in any conditions. Still running the stock transmission towing 13K . As I said before IMO the weak link was the cooling on the 7.3's . Overheating is what killed a lot of 4R100's. I have never really overheated mine, and it is still stock, going strong ,and shifting well. I advise anyone that is running a 7.3 , and 4R100 to install a 6.0 cooler ,and transmission gauge if towing heavy . You will probably get to skip that five thousand dollar BTS transmission, if you haven't already partially fried it.64thunderbolt wrote:
NO programmer can compete with custom tunes period. For power or dependability. Every truck will respond diferently. I have ran a hypertech and for the past 6 yrs a chip with custom tunes. Absolutely no contest.
I had no problems with the programmer but lots of people have.
Shift on the fly is great
Decell tune for decending those long steep grades is awesome.
Being able to decend 5 miles of 6/7% with no brake use is priceless
Trans stratagies are something you won't get in a programmer.
Tuner can put the shift points wherever you want them, lock the tq when you want & so on.
BUT not sure all this will work on a Cummins or Dmax. Never owned one.
You have to have run off the shelf programmers to know there is no comparison to custom tunes. I too run the DP tunes, decell ,40,60 ,80 ,and 120. I ran the Superchip before DP and it probably is the same as Hypertech ,and the others. Would never go back to off the shelf.TECMike wrote:
Thanks, everyone for the responses. Other than a Ford Severe Duty AIS system and a Brian's Truck Shop built transmission, our 20002 Ford 7.3 with 180K is stock. It has been a wonderful, trouble free truck.
However, it sure would be nice to have a little more power towing our little 5500 lb travel trailer and have no downshifting on small hills.
Guess me and my bride of fifty years will be looking into a tuner at some point.
You are doing yourself a favor already by having the AIS and BTS transmission. You really want to do the 'supporting mods' before you start adding power. If you decide to tune, I'd definitely suggest you upgrade your exhaust for better flow- it will help you shed exhaust gas temps (EGTs) more quickly, which is good. And maybe more importantly than anything, invest in gauges- the norm is trans temp, Pyrometer (for EGT's), and boost.
I have Jody's tunes (DP Tuner) and am quite pleased. That said, if you contact BTS again, they can also set you up with custom tuning. There are a lot of other options for custom tuning- Gearhead tunes, Power Hungry Performance, etc.
If at all possible, I would suggest that you schedule 'live' tuning- where the person you get tunes from rides in the truck with you as they adjust the pedal sensitivity, shift points, and other things. That way you can get it dialed in just as you want it.- I have no idea about the newer ones but on the truck the OP has What I said I believe to be true. I have had both options and have loved my custom tuned chip from day 1.
new trucks are too expensive for my taste. Not gonna pay more for a truck than I did for my home. And they are way too smart for an old gearhead like me. LOL
That "senior member" to the left? that's me alright. wintersun wrote:
Most diesels are already maxing out the capabilities of the transmission in stock form. A mild tune to get an extra 50HP may not cause a problem and "in general" the Ford transmissions handle this with little in the way of problems.
My Flashpaq only adds about 45 hp and about 10% increase in torque. I certainly hope you are correct. My take away from recent readings says you are.
A friend with a 2005 truck with the Duramax LLY engine saw a 1.5 MPG gain or about 20% with a tuner when pulling a 13,000 lb. trailer around the USA. Over a distance of 40,000 he would have saved enough in fuel costs to recouped the cost of the tuner. He sold the truck before he put the 40K miles so for him it was a net loss on his tuner investment. Your friend must have paid a lot for his tuner. 40,000 miles at 10 mpg would require 4,000 gallons of fuel. A 20% increase in mpg would save him 667 gallons of fuel, or about $2500. I didn't buy my tuner for better mileage, but it looks like I might get another mile or so per gallon. If so, my $325 tuner will pay for itself in less than 10,000 miles.
