Torque.... how much is needed for a pickup ?

Artum Snowbird wrote:
As a teen in the late sixties I remember reading my Father's Popular Mechanics from the late 50's. Tom McCahill used to report on cars then and he tested a 50 something car and I still recall his words as he reported on the engine having just over 100 HP. "I think that the internal combustion engine for automobiles has about reached it's potential, and personally I am glad it has...".

As I was reading this from ten to fifteen years earlier, it was Dodge 440 six pack time, huge Mopar mills... how times change.

Uncle Tom a great auto writer. Many say that he was the innovator of the 0-60 mph performance criteria and the man who developed the modern American style road test. BTW, he wrote for Mechanics Illustrated, not Popular Mechanics.:)

He also indicated that in the late '60's the average hp was around 300. HP did increase annually back then or so it seemed....till '71.
In 1970 one could buy a 450 HP/454 cube (LS 6) Chevelle SS ( a Univ. buddy had one)...a 425 HP/426 Hemi...and Ford had a significantly under rated Cobra Jet 428 cube V8 (335 hp)....that really put out something like 410-425 HP.

Then emissions, different ways of rating power, insurance rates all conspired to drop the average HP of the average '70's, early '80's car waaaay down.

As a teen in the late sixties I remember reading my Father's Popular Mechanics from the late 50's. Tom McCahill used to report on cars then and he tested a 50 something car and I still recall his words as he reported on the engine having just over 100 HP. "I think that the internal combustion engine for automobiles has about reached it's potential, and personally I am glad it has...".

As I was reading this from ten to fifteen years earlier, it was Dodge 440 six pack time, huge Mopar mills... how times change.

I think we've already passed the point where the trade off in economy vs. torque doesn't make sense. My '05 duramax has 660 lb/ft (I think). It's more than enough to tow well over the rating of the truck.
If the manufacturers would off a diesel that was half as powerful and got twice the mileage (like they did in the 80's) I'd have one in a hurry.
I'm not saying I want an 80's diesel mind you. I want one that gets the mileage they did then.
If the EPA would get out of the picture this country would burn a lot less oil.

RamTC wrote:
I've always had 420 TQ, and I'll soon have 850 TQ. I've always been able to get where I needed to go, but I think I'll be able to get where I'm going next with a bit more oomph.

Keeping your 98 or is it going to a new home when you get the 14?

I've always had 420 TQ, and I'll soon have 850 TQ. I've always been able to get where I needed to go, but I think I'll be able to get where I'm going next with a bit more oomph.

There is torque measured at the wheel, flywheel and then there is advertised torque. Did I read somewhere that you only get about 75% of it to the wheels? Pretty soon (already happening) the EPA is going to be the limiting factor.

Sadly those numbers are not in all gears and definitely not with a manual transmission. Personallyabout a thousand if it was available across the gears would be great. Since its not ill just have to stick with my meadly 650 till the cows come home.

Stepping into the way-back machine, I remember reading a truck mag around 1990-1991 talking about the Dodge Cummins and it's 400ft-lb of torque being "enough to tow a house!"

Here we are, with trucks putting out DOUBLE that amount of torque, and more than 2x the HP of the engine being praised.

I do think there's a limit though; there will come a point when the tradeoff of power vs. economy just won't make much sense, unless fuel burning technology gets so good that we can have 550hp and 1000+ft-lb and still get reasonable MPG.

Besides, as mentioned, what good would that type of output do for a chassis that couldn't handle loads that called for that much power?

Lessmore wrote:
If so.....shouldn't the person look at a MDT or HDT for his particular application ?

Yes. It would appear the torque is going to eventually be too much for the transmission, rear axle and frame to handle. But I'm sure the engineers are well aware of that limitation.

I just got an MDT and man, just the weight of the thing makes towing seem so much safer.