Tow Haul.......When?

BenK wrote:
If there was higher demand for manuals...then there would be new manuals capable
of handling today's torque numbers...chicken or egg...

The clutches and transmissions to handle higher torque are there, just look at bigger trucks. Another factor at play is torque management. Trucks with autos use torque management to protect truck components from full throttle application in lower gears. With as much low end torque that's available in today's pickup diesels, full throttle in a low gear is going to break something. Of course, they could make the frame, driveshaft, rear axle and everything else even stouter, but then you end up with a bigger truck. I've also read that emissions are a big part of the demise of manuals, and modern automatics make it easier engineer trucks that pass emission tests.

We agree and added why manuals were not up to the higher torque of today's...they
don't have enough demand...therefore no development of higher torque manuals...

If there was higher demand for manuals...then there would be new manuals capable
of handling today's torque numbers...chicken or egg...

BenK wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:

BenK wrote:
You folks who wish more control of your tranny as this discussion is about...consider getting a manual tranny on your next vehicle

I loved my 5 speed manual F-150 but my Torque Shift tranny is stronger than a clutch
and manual transmissions usually equate to a lower towing capacity. This probably why it is getting hard to even find a manual. On many models it is no longer an option.

:C

Chicken or egg...meaning that I could not order a manual for my Sub
because GM no longer offered it in their SUVs, but did offer it on their
pickups

Fashion statement crowd driven 'then' and still today

Double, triple clutch disc is common on high end (exotics and performance
'cars')

Why the chicken or egg...if more demand...the OEMs would put in double,
triple, etc clutch disc to handle the higher torque of today's TV's

Just not enough demand to warrant the R&D $$$$

Huh? :h

Not sure what you're saying (do we agree or disagree?), but now I'm hungry and can't decide if I want the leftover fried chicken or a couple of eggs over easy.... decisions, decisions. :?


LMAO. :B

Desert Captain wrote:

BenK wrote:
You folks who wish more control of your tranny as this discussion is about...consider getting a manual tranny on your next vehicle

I loved my 5 speed manual F-150 but my Torque Shift tranny is stronger than a clutch
and manual transmissions usually equate to a lower towing capacity. This probably why it is getting hard to even find a manual. On many models it is no longer an option.

:C

Chicken or egg...meaning that I could not order a manual for my Sub
because GM no longer offered it in their SUVs, but did offer it on their
pickups

Fashion statement crowd driven 'then' and still today

Double, triple clutch disc is common on high end (exotics and performance
'cars')

Why the chicken or egg...if more demand...the OEMs would put in double,
triple, etc clutch disc to handle the higher torque of today's TV's

Just not enough demand to warrant the R&D $$$$

BenK wrote:
You folks who wish more control of your tranny as this discussion is about...consider getting a manual tranny on your next vehicle

I loved my 5 speed manual F-150 but my Torque Shift tranny is stronger than a clutch
and manual transmissions usually equate to a lower towing capacity. This probably why it is getting hard to even find a manual. On many models it is no longer an option.

:C

APT wrote:
Except that a 4000 pounds high wall RV is harder on the truck than a 10000 pound flatbed or boat.

I see your point but disagree. Yes, pulling a 4k RV on the flat in a 30 mph headwind is probably harder on the truck than pulling a 10K low profile trailer in the same conditions. However, I used to tow a 4K RV with a Ford Aerostar up and over a mountain pass, and while it struggled it got the job done. Trying the same thing with a 10K flatbed would have resulted in lots of transmission smoke and a ride behind a tow truck.

wintersun wrote:

Based on what calculations?

Statistical analysis of fuel consumption reported by people towing.

You folks who wish more control of your tranny as this discussion is about...consider getting a manual tranny on your next vehicle

When I'm hooked up I'm in TH mode! I might experiment with this on an upcoming trip to the keys to check MPG with it on -vs- off. Flat and straight, should be simple enough.

wintersun wrote:

APT wrote:

wintersun wrote:
GM's engineers recommend using Tow Haul mode when the total load is greater than 75% of the GCWR for the truck.

Except that a 4000 pounds high wall RV is harder on the truck than a 10000 pound flatbed or boat.

Based on what calculations? Force on a trailer is equal to the area times the wind pressure per square foot times the area times the drag coefficient.

With a 60 sq. foot trailer at 60 MPH and using a Cd of 1.0 (like a brick) the force involved is 540 lbs. which is hardly the 6,000 lbs. increase you have stated. Even at 80 MPH the air drag force the tow vehicle needs to overcome with a completely square trailer is 983 lbs., which is not a lot for most tow vehicles to handle.

If the tow vehicle is a mini van pulling a 5,000 lb. trailer then the air drag is going to be a factor. With my truck that has a towing capacity of 17,300 lbs. this does not come into play at all.

This does assume that you are interested in the facts and not simply making things up as you go which has become so popular with politicians and Fox pundits and their cohorts in crime.





That depends on whether you are trying for a speed record and towing at 80 MPH and the grade. Going up a grade at 55 MPH I would much rather be towing a 4,000 lb. hard side trailer than a 10,000 lb. flatbed.

Why drag politics into a discussion about Tow/Haul? Sounds like you carry a big chip on your shoulder which renders your comments suspect. Real science? Or a bully?