Towing Jeep GC Question

mkirsch wrote:

diver110 wrote:
Very helpful. A few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How hard it is, skill-wise, to pull a car/car on trailer?

2. In looking at payloads and towing capacity, do you have to discount one for the other. In other words, can a truck with a camper on not pull its max? Is there any formula for figuring that out?

1. Going forward is not much different from driving just the truck, if everything is set up properly. Backing up takes practice, practice, practice.

2. You are on the right track saying "a truck with a camper on {can} not pull its max."

Every pound you put IN the truck is roughly SEVEN pounds you can NOT tow.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight of the camper and the weight of the trailer tongue into the truck's GVWR.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight or the camper and the ENTIRE weight of the trailer into the truck's GCWR.

Truck+camper+trailer tongue < GVWR
Truck+camper+whole trailer < GCWR

That's *ideal*. The world is not always ideal.

More than likely, in order to fit those rules you will need a big F350 or 3500-series truck with dual rear wheels, a dually, aka DRW truck. Lots of people have irrational hang-ups about driving DRW trucks, too big, too wide, too heavy, too too... whatever!

You can add on all sorts of aftermarket accessories on an F250 or 2500-series truck to keep it from sagging while you overload it. Some people call it "increasing the payload" but really, it isn't. Anyway, this allows them to carry heavier loads and feel safe while doing it. Good bad or indifferent, YOU need to determine if you feel safe and comfortable building up an F250 type truck to carry the load or if you would rather start off with an F350 dually type truck that can carry the load with no modifications.

If you go with a light enough camper, though, you can run an F250 size truck without modifications. Your question asked about overhangs, so I assume you're looking for a bigger more well-appointed camper.

Thanks for the feedback. I am one of these non-dually people. I am kicking around going with a gas engine because the payload is higher even though the mpg will suck.

I do not have a tow brake on my Samurai. If I dids have one, it would be the ReadyBrake™ Supplemental Brake Systems (about $400) with the Readystop Towed Vehicle Break Away Kit #RS-5000 (about $100). It is simple to install. It is easy to connect, with no loose parts. Easily transferred to a new vehicle. It works with any tow bar.

This is how it works: ReadyBrake Use and Installation Video

The video does not do a very good job in showing how you connect, after the system is installed.

Wayne

diver110 wrote:
Very helpful. A few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How hard it is, skill-wise, to pull a car/car on trailer?

2. In looking at payloads and towing capacity, do you have to discount one for the other. In other words, can a truck with a camper on not pull its max? Is there any formula for figuring that out?

1. Going forward is not much different from driving just the truck, if everything is set up properly. Backing up takes practice, practice, practice.

2. You are on the right track saying "a truck with a camper on {can} not pull its max."

Every pound you put IN the truck is roughly SEVEN pounds you can NOT tow.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight of the camper and the weight of the trailer tongue into the truck's GVWR.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight or the camper and the ENTIRE weight of the trailer into the truck's GCWR.

Truck+camper+trailer tongue < GVWR
Truck+camper+whole trailer < GCWR

That's *ideal*. The world is not always ideal.

More than likely, in order to fit those rules you will need a big F350 or 3500-series truck with dual rear wheels, a dually, aka DRW truck. Lots of people have irrational hang-ups about driving DRW trucks, too big, too wide, too heavy, too too... whatever!

You can add on all sorts of aftermarket accessories on an F250 or 2500-series truck to keep it from sagging while you overload it. Some people call it "increasing the payload" but really, it isn't. Anyway, this allows them to carry heavier loads and feel safe while doing it. Good bad or indifferent, YOU need to determine if you feel safe and comfortable building up an F250 type truck to carry the load or if you would rather start off with an F350 dually type truck that can carry the load with no modifications.

If you go with a light enough camper, though, you can run an F250 size truck without modifications. Your question asked about overhangs, so I assume you're looking for a bigger more well-appointed camper.

diver110 wrote:
How do the car break systems work? Does something go on the pedal?

There are a couple of different options and most all do connect to the brake peddle in the toad.

There are several electronic boxes that have an arm and you put them in front of the driver's seat and connect the arm to the brake peddle. All of them require power and you have to remove and re-install them every time. Not a real big deal, but you end up with a box put in and put out of the car every time. Most all of these sense the deceleration and apply the brakes. Little to no installation is needed (except for a little bit of inital setup adjustments), however these boxes do require power (which if you forget to turn them off while parked over night you could kill your battery) and occasionally the electronics fail.

I use the Ready Brute product. This is a tow bar with a surge brake built in. You do have to do a one time installation of a cable that goes from the brake peddle to the front of the toad, but once that is done, setting up the brake for towing consists of: connect the tow bar, then connect the brake peddle cable (which will be just under your bumper) to the lever on the Ready Brute. When you slow down your truck, the toad starts pushing against the truck, which causes the surge brake assembly to pull on the cable connected to the brake cable. Advantage of this system is no power (as in 12V from the battery) is needed and you dont have to hassle with a box you have to take in and out and store from in front of the driver's seat.

Both systems work fine, but I am personally biased toward the Ready Brute (as I have one and I love the way it works)

Also dont forget you need to wire up marker lights (tail lights) otherwise the police will not be happy if you are driving after dark or in the rain with no tail lights. You have four options there - magnetic or bolt on lights, diode systems that use your existing marker lights, or auxiliary bulbs installed in your existing tail light assemblies.

Magnetic lights which just stick to the body of your car are simple to set up, but you have to put them on and take them off every time.

Additional bolt on lights (like light fixtures used on utility trailers) are easy to install, but, just are, well, ugly.

Diode packages permit you to use the existing bulbs, and there are several ways to set that up, but they dont always work on all makes and models and if you are not proficient in automobile electrical systems, you could (extreme worst case) possibly fry your wiring or on board computers.

Auxiliary bulbs work when you have tail light assemblies where you can install an additional light bulb and wire it separately from the automobile's electrical system.

You have to figure out which will work for you.

For braking on more than one vehicle= I purchased a roadmaster even brake- there are several brands- but we have a wrangler and Cherokee we tow for different kids of trips and move the evenbrake between the two cars- its basically a pneumatic air ram and a pump, that activates off of inerta. I have gone down some big hills and been happy to not have the vehicle behind me pushing.

deltabravo wrote:
Don't settle for a trailer with brakes on only one axle.

Some states don't require brakes on all wheel positions of a multi axle trailer, so when trailer manufacturers ship trailers to those states, the skimp and only put brakes on one axle. It's the craziest thing I've ever come across.

In my case, it will probably make more sense to tow flat. I avoid doing anything really heavy duty offroad, plus it saves the cost of the trailer, etc. How do the car break systems work? Does something go on the pedal?

Don't settle for a trailer with brakes on only one axle.

Some states don't require brakes on all wheel positions of a multi axle trailer, so when trailer manufacturers ship trailers to those states, the skimp and only put brakes on one axle. It's the craziest thing I've ever come across.

Another advantage to flat towing, is no additional weight put on the Truck/camper. Simply stated, no tongue weight. Because there is no tongue weight, no special heavy duty hitch requirements. Towing a trailer, you can easily spend $1200 to $1500 on a hitch only. Then maybe add a Weight Distribution Hitch. Not often I see big Class As towing a trailer, but frequently see them flat towing. Must be a reason.

Brake requirements on the vehicle being towed, vary from state to state, and I think required in Canada. I am sure someone will argue this point, but many confuse trailer brake requirements with towed vehicle requirements. Brakes systems for towed vehicles typically cost between $500 and $1500. The various sites with Towed vehicle brake requirements are full of errors, they sell brakes systems, check with the individual state.

Wayne

diver110 wrote:
Very helpful. A few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How hard it is, skill-wise, to pull a car/car on trailer?

2. In looking at payloads and towing capacity, do you have to discount one for the other. In other words, can a truck with a camper on not pull its max? Is there any formula for figuring that out?

You can pull more than its max, most of us do. Its stopping that is the priority.

You can always sacrifice some towing power but DON'T skimp on the trailer brakes. If your going to tow a trailer of any weight buy the BEST brake controller you can find, make sure your trailer brakes work correctly. My trailer brakes will actually stop the whole rig if it has to.

Desert

trail-explorer wrote:

Desert1667 wrote:

Nice looking truck you have.

Looks like an 83 or 84

Thanks, Its an 83 , Looks and works even better now as a "Dually"

Desert