towing with suv???

Good comment, APT. I wasn't avoiding giving info to the OP, but didn't want to turn this thread into another '80%' debate ;)

Anton, generally speaking, most people can add a WDH + sway control and if they stay at or below 80% of their TV's rated towing capacity, they never have to consider calculated loads, axle weights, advanced hitches, upgraded tires, etc...yet have a perfectly acceptable towing experience.

It is usually once you get closer to or even exceed the tow capacity that all these things and drivers' skills play a significantly larger role.

To be perfectly clear, I do NOT recommend you exceed any ratings or capacities on your vehicle, trailer, or even at the dinner buffet. If you want some private tips of how to better prepare your TV/setup to better handle large loads, drop me a PM and I'd be more than happy to share the things I've done over the years.

This is a public board, so gotta use disclaimers or someone will read it, get the wrong idea, and next thing you know, they will be towing a truck on a cargo trailer while it is attached to a 5th wheel RV, all behind a rented UHaul truck! :D (nod to the other thread)

Here is one thing that concerns me. Some folks are suggesting that to tow heavy, their TV should be nearly empty and kept as light as possible. Bullocks! A light TV is just begging to be thrown around by the wind, heavy trailer, or a wild sneeze.

I load the rear axle with cargo and use the WDH to xfer trailer tongue weight to the front axle. The last things I want are light weight axles ON THE WHEELS I CONTROL (wheels on the TV) when I need to maneuver or deal with wind, etc. Some squat of TV is good for handling.

If you are setup properly, the TV should NEVER feel light it wants to twist or have the back end pushed one way or the other. Even in high winds, the worst it should feel like is being pushed as one with the trailer...sort of like driving a car fast around a sharp turn- don't oversteer or accelerate and you remain in control.

A proportional brake controller with boost settings. I use a Prodigy and have been quite pleased. It allows you to instantly set it to be more aggressive for steep hills, heavy traffic, etc while still maintaining a solid base adjustment. It is not affected by the mounting level, pitch of your TV (think steep grades), or other factors.

Again, I apologize if you were seeking this kind of info and I failed to assist. Hope this helps!

You can improve towing with a Expy by changing out the P tires for LT's. You can change out the gears in the rear end if you don't have the towing package already. You can even slap a turbo on the 5.4 and give it 600 hp. You will have a truck you can take to the drag strip and probably win with BUT you will still have a tongue weight limit of 900 pounds.

Can you run at or exceed your limits and get away with it, maybe. You may find that for perfect situations that there are no issue but in a emergency situation you are SOL. You may find that there are bearings that can handle the load but over loaded for hours on end may cause them to over heat and be smoked. It isn't always the biggest parts failing that gets ya.

Go beyond the tongue weight and you have to look at payload. Our 07 has 1745 pounds of payload to play with. Take 1100 pounds of tongue weight out of that and you have 600 pounds or less depending on how much your hitch weighs. In our case the dogs, Honey and I weigh a total of 400 pounds plus a full tank of gas and whatever else is in the truck. Now you are talking not just exceeding the tongue weigh but also bumping up against the total payload. (BTW different Expys have different payloads. the 03 has 1565 lbs, some have over 1800 lb)

There is also a limit as far as how much the total rig can weigh. your trailer will likely be running at 8000 pounds and a Expy is 5600 pounds dry PLUS passengers, gas, etc. That's 14000 pounds, is that limit being pushed too?

To me the numbers are there to tell you what the truck can safely do. It is your family in there, do what you think is best for them.

The "80%" rule, guideline, whatever people call it often covered RVing vs. other types of trailers that are far easier to tow. It also generally covered the payload limitation of half ton vehicles and smaller for family RVing. As Ron suggested, there is no such thing as an 80% anything. Learn what each limit is for any given TV with respect to RVing and you can operate up to and some people believe over certain ratings.

Every modern naturally aspirated engine will need 4000rpm+ to maintain 60mph up hills towing high walled RVs. It take a lot of power to maintain 65mph on flat ground and those engines with little reserve torque at 2500rpm will need to downshift a gear or two. But that will be true of 4000 pounds loaded or 8000 pounds.

The problem most people have and the most mentioned improvement when people upgrade to TVs with more capability is the towing stability. The TV handles wind better. Natural wind, wind off opposing semi trucks, wind from slant nose minivans can be a bear when they pass you.

AntonB, I think the idea behind the 80% reserve if for steep hills (I may be wrong). With my setup I'm basically at 80% and haven't encountered an incline I had to slow down for. It will downshift and run at 4000 RPMs on the bigger climbs though, but it still maintains 60 MPH (my usual towing speed). I doubt I would be able to maintain that speed if I was at max tow though. If you find it struggling you may be able to change the rear end gearing which is less $ than buying a new tow vehicle.

Please don't take my responses as sarcasm or rejection of good advice, these factors are all considered and appreciated. It seems to me that this is not a finite decision or a yes or no answer. As previously stated in this thread you would get some for it and some against it. Experience counts for a lot around here and I would never diminish any of yours. As with any new experience the lessons learned will be priceless or extremely expensive. LOL

AntonB wrote:
Thanks. So I think that the my TT purchasing chronicle is about over. 2005 Jayco JayFlight 29FBS, 7000lb unladen weight, 8800lb GVWR. My Expy has a max tow of 8700, so w/ that being said, I believe that I am going to be ok towing & maneuvering this one with the weights being as they are.

What is the point of asking if you do not follow the advice?

Scroll up. 7k dry, 8000-8500 pounds loaded. Tongue weight will far exceed your receiver's ~900 pound limit. You will be over rear axle, GVWR, and receiver rating.

This guy started with a 700 pounds lighter RV and cannot make it work despite well under the tow rating.

Ron Gratz wrote:

DiskDoctr wrote:
Once you go over 80% of your rated towing capacity, you have to be sure to have all your ducks in a row, it WILL handle differently.

Can you elaborate on the "80%" threshold?
Where does the 80% value come from?
What do you mean by being "over 80% of your rated towing capacity"?
How will the handling be different at, say, 85% versus 75%?
Do you believe it us unsafe or otherwise inadvisable to tow at more than 80% of rated capacity?

Ron

This has been debated to death, you are welcome to search the subject. I won't be accepting the invitation today :R

It is what it is, it is reality and prudent advice, regardless of the theoretical opinions some like to throw around. Those who respect it will be happier and safer tow-ers.

The same caution could be applied to new hikers, suggesting they get experience and practice before setting out to conquer the Appalachian Trail, including understanding the need for well-proven equipment and precautions as the margin and tolerance for error is much smaller. Small mistakes have a bigger impact and higher risk as these margins shrink.

I appreciate that. We live in Upstate New York it's not very hilly around here but there are a couple areas. I don't plan on speeding down the road either, the speed limit or just below is fine w/ me. I have exhausted this chronicle w/ a lot of folks & the general consensus is "Don't pack your TT to capacity, you are going on vacation, not moving. LOL. Overpacking is the major offender of any TT owner, & w/ the highway even if you tow a 10 foot trailer up a hill & getting passed by a tractor trailer doing 85 mph you're gonna hate it. I mean budget wise and everything it seems like we are in a good spot. I mean do I really need a F450 Super duty diesel to pull whatever trailer I want? What I have an Expy w/ a extremely respectable tow rating compared to a Chevy of the same class.

So where did jsparkscougar go? Sounds like our Dutchmen 190QB fits their needs. It's 4200 lbs dry and just over 5000 lbs when packed. It has the walk around queen bed, angled shower and a lots of storage. While we haven't towed it yet it's basically the same trailer as previous Freedom Spirit FS180 (made by Dutchmen) but with a different layout. Our Explorer (rated for 7000 lbs) towed the FS180 just fine.

DiskDoctr wrote:
Once you go over 80% of your rated towing capacity, you have to be sure to have all your ducks in a row, it WILL handle differently.

Can you elaborate on the "80%" threshold?
Where does the 80% value come from?
What do you mean by being "over 80% of your rated towing capacity"?
How will the handling be different at, say, 85% versus 75%?
Do you believe it us unsafe or otherwise inadvisable to tow at more than 80% of rated capacity?

Ron