TT shopping frustration

Shorteelaw wrote:
We went out today searching for a TT that will meet our needs. We were very upfront with every sales person that we encountered regarding only having 940 max tongue weight available and every one tried to sell us something way heavier than everyone on this site tells us is safe. We found one that we LOVED but then we looked and it was 5300 dry and the dry hitch weight was 800 frickin pounds. Even at camping world they were insistent that we could do 6000 pounds DRY WEIGHT! So so frustrating!

I am the LAST person to defend RV salespersons as they are RARELY knowledgeable about towing and (in my experience at least) are rarely RVers. They are all interested in making a sale no matter the criteria that you walk in with. Even if they start out listening to your wants they will end up spending more than 50% of the visit showing you "something else that you might be interested in". Can't blame them too much for that either because many of the folks shopping for an RV have no clue what they are looking for. Also the more complicated the parameters the more their eyes will "glaze over" and they will not hear all what you are asking for them to meet with their trailer options.

That said, nowhere have I seen in your post (and in several of your past posts; didn't read them all as I have to move on ...) where you mentioned your tow vehicle, or its rated capacities. You stated the limit on tongue weight was 940# and were shown trailers with tongue weights around 800# - what is wrong with that? When the trailer is loaded up most of the weight should be on the axles and it is up to the RVer to balance the weight distribution so that it is 10 - 15% of the total weight. If it is too heavy then it can be shifted backwards by loading more to the rear of the trailer. IOW, the 800# will grow but not necessarily to exceed your 940# limit.

My suggestion in minimizing frustration at the dealership is to go with basic but realistic limits on tow capacity and tongue weight, and then just focus on the floorplans that interest you. Keep it simple.

Good luck.

We went out today searching for a TT that will meet our needs. We were very upfront with every sales person that we encountered regarding only having 940 max tongue weight available and every one tried to sell us something way heavier than everyone on this site tells us is safe. We found one that we LOVED but then we looked and it was 5300 dry and the dry hitch weight was 800 frickin pounds. Even at camping world they were insistent that we could do 6000 pounds DRY WEIGHT! So so frustrating!

It seems to me the solution is simple. Get more vehicle or look at smaller trailers. Never use brochure weights, nor dry weights. If you use gross weights and then find you are actually a little under gross then you have a small weight cushion. Don't forget to include the hitch weight into your payload reduction. Use 75-100 pounds to estimate the hitch weight.

Most towing guides for vehicles provide the 'best case' for payload and towing. This usually is with minimal options, no other people in the seats, tools, dogs, bicycles, kayaks, bbq, chairs, etc. The more in the vehicle, the less the tongue can weigh to stay within the payload/towing guidelines. The receiver on your vehicle should be placarded with the maximum towing capacities. Typically
two values are provided. One for 'on the ball' towing and the second for using a weight distribution hitch.

Ford does an excellent job in their on line towing guidelines. For gas engines they prescribe a reduction in towing capacity of two percent for each 1000 feet elevation and also a reduction for frontal area of the travel trailer or fifth wheel. Their normally aspired gas vehicles operating above 5000 feet elevation and considering the frontal reduction the towing capacity for the vehicle can be reduced by ten or more percent. Diesels are not affected by elevation as they are turbocharged. Living in Oregon you will be in the mouuntains so elevations and grades are things to think about.

My suggestion is to get the towing/payload guide for your vehicle and use that when shopping. Then use gross weight, not dry, for the travel trailer you want and see if they are a good match. Then use 13 percent for the tongue weight plus the weight of the hitch. For example a fully loaded trailer at 6000 pounds gvwr will have a tongue weight estimate at 13 percent of almost 800 pounds plus 75-100 pounds for the hitch or a total of nearly 880 pounds.

The rule of thumb is to get the RV you want first, then get the vehicle to tow it. Otherwise you are trying to find a RV to fit the tow vehicle, usually a compromise.

The brochure for my trailer stated 516 lbs hitch weight. Actual weight ready to go is 860 lbs with nothing in the waste tanks. Don't believe anything you read or are told. The advice about getting a Sherline scale is very good, just remember to have the dealer fill all the water tanks and allow for added personal items.

Timely thread as I just checked my tongue weight yesterday. Our trailer (2014 Trail Runner 27RKS) according to the manufacturer is 6442 pounds with a tongue weight of 500 (rear kitchen layout). I checked the trailer with my sherline weight scale that I just bought and without anything in it, the tongue weight showed 580 pounds. This I'm sure was the result of the awning, full propane tanks, battery, and anything the manufacturer installed after it was weighed. I said to my wife, lets load it up with everything we plan on camping with so I can check it again (nothing real heavy, just normal stuff everyone takes with them). I'm guessing we loaded maybe 750 pounds of stuff including the weight distribution hitch that I put in the front cargo area because that would normally be attached. We put just about everything in front of the trailer axles since I had such a low weight when dry. The tongue weight raised to 980 pounds. Once I re-distributed things so what we put in the trailer was equally distributed throughout the trailer the tongue weight dropped to 880 pounds. Then I added the weight of the hitch receiver (about 60 pounds) and the total tongue weight is 62% more than the dry weight. My suggestion is to bring a Sherline scale and calculator with you when shopping so you know the actual weight on the tongue and then add a minimum of 60% to that amount and you'll be pretty close to what you will have when towing. Based on what your max tongue weight is, you should be looking at trailers with tongue weights less than 560 pounds dry (940 X 60%).

This seems to be the third in a series. First the OP asked what all the acronyms concerning payload meant. The answers pointed in the direction of a 2500 or HD1500 series pickup. The second was something about "We purchased a half ton pickup and are disappointed with the low payload rating". I suspect the fourth will be "What can we do to increase the payload and stop the swaying with our tow vehicle?" Not picking on the OP, happens all the time on here. The same answer will always be, "Buy a combination that works well together and has a little extra capacity, "Just in case the kids grow up, or you decide to take a generator along".

Buy a sherline tongue scale and take with you. Then you'll know exactly what the dry tongue weight is.

http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm

Shorteelaw wrote:

...
We found one that we LOVED but then we looked and it was 5300 dry and the dry hitch weight was 800 frickin pounds.
...

Wow, never seen a trailer with a DRY tongue weight ratio over 15%.
Usually it's 10-12% dry until you load it up, and then it turns into *surprise* >15%. That's happened to me twice now.

On this trailer, where is the storage and batteries? Just maybe it's designed so most of the added weight will be over or behind the axles? If it's behind the axles, it will actually reduce the tongue weight.

I've always found estimating Loaded tongue weight to be the most difficult part of the "looking-for-a-trailer" process.

All manufacturers have web sites and those web sites have specifications do your homework and become familiar with how the trailer is constructed, are they using composites constructively or are they making the trailer the same way they did 30 years ago, (Hint the vast majority are). I knew what I wanted before I started looking aluminum frame more an aircraft construction than the typical RV tank.

It can be fristrating but dont give up. I bet more than half of those salesmen you spoke with dont even camp. How are you going to sell something you dont enjoy yourself, ill never understand that. I use to tow my shadow cruiser 280qbs with a ram 1500 hemi. It weighed 5400 dry and I thought I was 8500lbs towing capacity. Come to find out I knly had 6700lbs towing. But didnt have issues at all except on hills I could feel the tt behjnd me.

I tow with a 1/2 ton and the dry weight on our trailer is 5400lbs. No issues what so ever. I tow with empty tanks most often and load the trailer with the gear instead of the truck bed.