Unbraked trailer, towing limitations

If this is confusing, I'd hate to see how some deal with actual issues...lol.

Marty
and to add to the confusion for a dealer to sell a trailer in canada if it has a GVW over 2000lbs then it must be sold with break away trailer brakes. this insures all trailers sold in canada met the most strict of provincial requirments.

If you look at the individual provincial requirements, it's still around 3000lbs in some provinces. I just spoke to a trailer shop and when I mentioned BC, his eyes rolled back so far...enough said.

Chris,
There are some funky rules for tankers, buses, cement rigs etc. I've not paid alot of attention to those issues, as I don't drive those kinds of rigs. I've only paid attention and have tried to learn the if you have a class 1-6 truck, pulling an electric or hydraulic surge brakes. How field tests are performed, etc. Its been VERY clear from every LEO/CVEO tve known, talked too, or taken some classes with, everyone has to follow the same basic rules if I've 10k licensed, or pulling a trailer.
Washington appears to be like BC, they have folks assigned to scale houses, also have field folks pulling over rigs outside. There were two fellows I would see outside a gravel pit frequently. Granted getting dump trucks......I did see other rigs getting pulled over that were suspect.
City of Seattle sets up commercial enforcement at the ports where containers come in and out. If they find burned out bulbs, guess who's selling you the working bulbs in order to get back on the road? They have the equal to a SnapOn tool truck filled with common misc wrong things on trucks.
Still would like to see a definition of how the braking on trailers gvw is figured out. So far pure guess on anyone's part. Including mine.

Marty

blt2ski wrote:
Scooby,

As I understand Federal Bridge Laws for max weights. Everyone, commercial, personal use per say gets 20k per axel. BUT, you can get limited in weight by the lack of distance between them. 0 to x' is 17k per, x to y' is 18500, over y' you get the full 20k. A 2nd enforced here in WA st, not in Illinois per past comments from wadcutter, is lbs per inch width of tire. Minimum is 500 lbs per inch. A state can allow more. BUT you pull across a state line that goes with a lower amount, you get taxed/fined for being overwieght. Here if unit has duals, you get 600, singles 500 per inch.
Bus chassis and MH based on bus chassis, tank trucks trailers can get up to iirc 24k. NOT ALL MH get 24k.
My 1500 could go as high as 22000 gvw if I've paid that amount. BUT, now the local LEO/CVEO can get me for other issues not included in the federal bridge laws from a max wieght perspective. Can I stop my truck per field test in appropriate distance at iirc 20mph. I'll fail, I'm no longer allowed on the road until I meet spec.
Issue I see going back to initial post, is WHAT definition does a given state law for said trailer weight needing brakes? WA is an RCWxx, x being a number, RCW46 appears to be general catch all for speed wieghts, lighting etc for this.
If they use say tire width per FBL, OP and Chris probably have typical 155-185mm width tires, so 6-7". That's 3000-3500 ea, max allowed per axle 6000-7000 lbs. If a state has 3000 lbs, appears to be general max for brakes, if you have tires wider than 3"x2, you would be required to have brakes on the trailer. Or if by some fat chance of a very small percentage, they use manufacture spec, tire sidewall amount, the bar IMHO is going to be harder to hit. As most of the tires on smaller trailers like this are less than 1500-2000 lbs per tire. I had a 155-13 that was around 800-900 lbs per tire.
I know that while I would be legal with two trailers shown talked about here in WA st, I would not want 3000 lbs of unbraked trailer pushing me down some of the local 15-20% grades trying or hoping to stop. Or emergency stop at 60mph with a 15 series rig, with a all load, total 2000 over it's factory gvwr.
Marty

I thought tandem duals were limited to 36K in Washington. I could not carry a full 80K load in my tanker because the distance from my drivers to the trailer axles was shorter than the requirement. So trips out of town had me one compartment empty and at 72K. Big chevy truck!

Wadcutter wrote:
I was one of the first certified CVEO in the state. Did it for a lot of years, taught CVE for a lot of years. There's so much hooey on this thread concerning what a CVEO supposedly said that you can discount it. As soon as someone mentions CVEO enforcement on your RV then just page right on by their post. They don't know what they're talking about.
CVEO = Commercial Vehicle Enforcement officer. Read that very first word. Commercial. You pulling your popup or 43 ft 5er down the road is not a commercial vehicle. None of the commercial vehicle laws apply. Why? Think about it. Because you are not a commercial vehicle. It's clearly defined in the FMCSA. It's obvious some who are attributing something to a CVEO have never read any of the FMCSA.
Manufacturers do not make the law. It doesn't matter what the manufacturer says is the limit. That is not the law. The state doesn't make trailers, the manufacturers don't make the law.
For the person who said they said saw 4 people sitting in court to pay fines because they overweight on their RV or boat. They were not overweight on their RV or boat. They may be over on their registration for the weight they were hauling but they weren't overweight. Totally different. Know the difference in terminology.
Generally weight limits per axle are 20K per single axle. Sometimes 18K depending on the class of the highway. You're not going to be overweight on a boat or RV axle limit. You may be over on your registration limit. If you only paid registration to haul 8K and hauling 12K that's over on registration and is an offense. Pay for the higher rate registration and you can haul it. But it's not overweight.

so what about up here in Canada where CVO's are actual peace officeres and can pull over cars for speeding and so on. its not common but they do pull over rv's in BC if they see or suspect an infraction.

mkirsch wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

I don't see where anyone is saying manufacturers make the law or the state makes trailers. Manufacturers make the trailers that MUST COMPLY with the law, period.

Yeah..the OPs topic is about un braked trailers. Most replies have been on topic...until now.

I bought a '97 16' 2900 gvwr bumper pull utility trailer with tandem 3500 lb axles with one axle braking from my trailer mfg just down the road.
Now the trailer mfg says they don't single brake a tandem axle trailer anymore...thankfully. Dangz thing was dangerous with just half a load.

A 2900GVWR trailer with tandem 3500lb axles was dangerous with "half a load" i.e. 1500lbs? Must have been one poorly built trailer.

You must have some numbers crossed around.

Sorry ..I forgot some folks think the trailers gvwr carries the load. I was referring to single axle braking on a tandem 3500 lb axle trailer carrying a 3k lbs on the bed.
The trailer was well built...just didn't have enough braking for the axle/tire capacities.
AS I mentioned the trailer mfg doesn't run single brakes anymore on this trailer but use same brand 3500 lb axles with brakes on the same trailer with a 7000 gvwr.

blt2ski wrote:
Scooby,

As I understand Federal Bridge Laws for max weights. Everyone, commercial, personal use per say gets 20k per axel. BUT, you can get limited in weight by the lack of distance between them. 0 to x' is 17k per, x to y' is 18500, over y' you get the full 20k.

The FBL is not understood by I would guess 2% of CDL drivers. Because I set my snot up to both scale as much as I could and maneuver easy city streets/construction sites I'm pretty familiar with.

A 2nd enforced here in WA st, not in Illinois per past comments from wadcutter, is lbs per inch width of tire. Minimum is 500 lbs per inch. A state can allow more. BUT you pull across a state line that goes with a lower amount, you get taxed/fined for being overwieght. Here if unit has duals, you get 600, singles 500 per inch.

I have heard of the width limit enforced for a long time. OTOH, law requires the load rating on sidewalls. I bet it would be a rare tire that was not wide enough to handle the rating. But this is a place where many RVers that have no idea what their rig weighs could get in trouble.

Something else to mention, at least here in WA st, leo/CVEO's enforce the laws equal between commercial and personal. BUT personal does not need to go thru scale houses over 10k and towing. But field could pull one over if they see enough issues with your personal rig. Granted a really tiny percentage chance,.

Marty

JIMNLIN wrote:

I don't see where anyone is saying manufacturers make the law or the state makes trailers. Manufacturers make the trailers that MUST COMPLY with the law, period.

Yeah..the OPs topic is about un braked trailers. Most replies have been on topic...until now.

I bought a '97 16' 2900 gvwr bumper pull utility trailer with tandem 3500 lb axles with one axle braking from my trailer mfg just down the road.
Now the trailer mfg says they don't single brake a tandem axle trailer anymore...thankfully. Dangz thing was dangerous with just half a load.

A 2900GVWR trailer with tandem 3500lb axles was dangerous with "half a load" i.e. 1500lbs? Must have been one poorly built trailer.

You must have some numbers crossed around.

Scooby,

As I understand Federal Bridge Laws for max weights. Everyone, commercial, personal use per say gets 20k per axel. BUT, you can get limited in weight by the lack of distance between them. 0 to x' is 17k per, x to y' is 18500, over y' you get the full 20k. A 2nd enforced here in WA st, not in Illinois per past comments from wadcutter, is lbs per inch width of tire. Minimum is 500 lbs per inch. A state can allow more. BUT you pull across a state line that goes with a lower amount, you get taxed/fined for being overwieght. Here if unit has duals, you get 600, singles 500 per inch.
Bus chassis and MH based on bus chassis, tank trucks trailers can get up to iirc 24k. NOT ALL MH get 24k.
My 1500 could go as high as 22000 gvw if I've paid that amount. BUT, now the local LEO/CVEO can get me for other issues not included in the federal bridge laws from a max wieght perspective. Can I stop my truck per field test in appropriate distance at iirc 20mph. I'll fail, I'm no longer allowed on the road until I meet spec.
Issue I see going back to initial post, is WHAT definition does a given state law for said trailer weight needing brakes? WA is an RCWxx, x being a number, RCW46 appears to be general catch all for speed wieghts, lighting etc for this.
If they use say tire width per FBL, OP and Chris probably have typical 155-185mm width tires, so 6-7". That's 3000-3500 ea, max allowed per axle 6000-7000 lbs. If a state has 3000 lbs, appears to be general max for brakes, if you have tires wider than 3"x2, you would be required to have brakes on the trailer. Or if by some fat chance of a very small percentage, they use manufacture spec, tire sidewall amount, the bar IMHO is going to be harder to hit. As most of the tires on smaller trailers like this are less than 1500-2000 lbs per tire. I had a 155-13 that was around 800-900 lbs per tire.
I know that while I would be legal with two trailers shown talked about here in WA st, I would not want 3000 lbs of unbraked trailer pushing me down some of the local 15-20% grades trying or hoping to stop. Or emergency stop at 60mph with a 15 series rig, with a all load, total 2000 over it's factory gvwr.
Marty