Water works in bathroom, but Kitchen sink is just a trickle

And with the above explanation by John, it is time to put this one to bed. Thanks to all for your participation.
Barney

Hi Boondocker,

I have tried several times over the last two days to try and understand your point of view, and I keep coming back to, you appear to have taken a set of words out context in the way they were meant for. I will try one last time to explain.

Boon Docker wrote:


I did not say all your info is wrong, just what was stated below.

"Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater,"

^ That my friend is mis-information.

You can have water come out of a hot faucet when the water heater is bypassed. No water is entering or leaving the water heater.

Here is a quote section from my original post that is being talked about so you do not have to flip back to the prior page and you can see the entire paragraph.

JBarca wrote:

ncladfw3 wrote:
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.

Hi,

A few things to confirm and then look for,

1. Confirm this, at any faucet in the camper (bath, shower, kitchen, outside shower etc) at the hot water faucet "only", does any water come out of any faucet? The water may be cold, but knowing if any water comes out helps pinpoint the issue. Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater, just it may not be hot, which is a different problem. No water coming out of any faucet points to the bypass valves are not letting water in, or out, OR a check valve on the hot outlet port of the water heater is defective pending the type of bypass setup you have.

The first part of the item 1, was meant to have the OP confirm if water would flow out of all the faucets on the hot faucet side. The hope was he could confirm the flow on the hot side would be even at all faucets, ideally the same flow as the cold faucet. I just did not ask him if the flow was even, we never made it that far as he solved the issue.

The items included in blue, is where it seems to be where the problem starts from your view. I could of left item 1 stand with only the first sentence, but I added more detail to help him try and understand why the question was being asked.

Here is the full sentence in quotes you have labeled as misinformation, not just the part you quoted above as a stand alone statement. This is where I believe the miss understanding of context is coming in.

"Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater, just it may not be hot, which is a different problem. "

That statement had nothing to do with the heater being bypassed or even why it was not getting hot. The sentence is correct for a "non-bypassed" system which is what the statement is all about. If the system is not in bypass, then water should go in and come out of the water heater, pass through the piping where it will come out of the hot water faucets as cold water as it passes through the heater. If the heater is plugged up, or parts of the bypass system are plugged up, water can be restricted and not flow correctly. But if it is flowing well, cold water should show up at the hot faucets then we know the heater is not plugged up. That is the context of the statement, it is about flow through the heater.

I agree with you, cold water can come out of the hot water faucet if the system is in bypass. The context of the statement dealt with the system not bypassed. I'm sure you are not saying cold water cannot pass through a water heater and come out the hot side of a faucet.

Can you now see the context of the statement as I made it?

Since you used the word friend in your last post, that is a good word. As a friendly suggestion, when you see something in my posting or someone else's, that looks wrong, not right, mixed up, etc, trying asking for clarification before labeling the wording as misinformation. The poster may have just plan goofed. It happens, we are human.

Another friendly suggestion, find a different word then the political buzz word, misinformation. That word has a lot of negative meaning to it. See here what synonyms Merriam Webster declares for the word misinformation. https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/misinformation. The first one in the list of synonyms is lie, and the list gets worse from there.

I hope this helps at least explains what was being talked with water passing through the heater.

John

MFL wrote:
Hey John...very good pics of the WH bypass system, and the check valve, that is a common problem, causing WH issues on certain models. IMO, using that cheap plastic valve, is just another low quality savings for the manufacturer.

One poster may have misunderstood, but I don't see "misinformation".

Those kitchen aerator screens plug easily, especially if no water filter is used. I sure like having an OEM whole house filter system!

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Thanks,

I fully agree with you, the plastic poppet check valves are a low cost setup with quality that does not last. While the failure rate is lower on newer campers, the older the camper gets the worse they can be. Any time I pull a water heater out on a camper restoration I'm doing, the check valve is removed and the bypass setup converted to a two, 3 way valve setup by pass.

Thanks again

John

Is either water pipe hot or at least warm right at the HW tank? If so you most likely have a bypass problem. My next step would be to check for 120V on the AC input terminals.

JBarca wrote:

Boon Docker wrote:
JBarca - A bypass system is used to bypass the water heater so you can run anti-freeze through all the lines (including the hot water lines) without getting anti-freeze in the heater.

Here are three different configurations of a water heater bypass.
All three allow water to pass through the hot water plumbing while bypassing the water heater.

Boon Docker,

Sorry, you missed my point. I agree with what is said above. A water heater with a "working bypass system" will allow water to pass to the hot water piping. I think we both agree with this. The key to this is "working". We have no idea if his bypass is working, what type, or if he set it correctly.

The OP is new to campers. His post started as water flows as a trickle. Then this,

ncladfw3 wrote:
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.

He may not know how all the bypasses work, how they fail, or how to set them. He said there was no hot water, and cleaning the aerator improved flow, but he never clarified if water was fully flowing, half flowing, or now a big trickle on the hot side or cold. Once that is clarified, then one can start figuring out why it is not hot. If water (cold or hot), is not leaving the heater on full flow, that is a problem to sort out first. I asked him to clarify.

I explained my position on my thought process, with pictures even, yet you may still seem to feel I have posted "Misinformation" in bold letters, no less, without asking for clarification. How are you reading all I have posted as "misinformation"?

I did not say all your info is wrong, just what was stated below.

"Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater,"

^ That my friend is mis-information.

You can have water come out of a hot faucet when the water heater is bypassed. No water is entering or leaving the water heater.

Hey John...very good pics of the WH bypass system, and the check valve, that is a common problem, causing WH issues on certain models. IMO, using that cheap plastic valve, is just another low quality savings for the manufacturer.

One poster may have misunderstood, but I don't see "misinformation".

Those kitchen aerator screens plug easily, especially if no water filter is used. I sure like having an OEM whole house filter system!

Jerry

Boon Docker wrote:
JBarca - A bypass system is used to bypass the water heater so you can run anti-freeze through all the lines (including the hot water lines) without getting anti-freeze in the heater.

Here are three different configurations of a water heater bypass.
All three allow water to pass through the hot water plumbing while bypassing the water heater.

Boon Docker,

Sorry, you missed my point. I agree with what is said above. A water heater with a "working bypass system" will allow water to pass to the hot water piping. I think we both agree with this. The key to this is "working". We have no idea if his bypass is working, what type, or if he set it correctly.

The OP is new to campers. His post started as water flows as a trickle. Then this,

ncladfw3 wrote:
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.

He may not know how all the bypasses work, how they fail, or how to set them. He said there was no hot water, and cleaning the aerator improved flow, but he never clarified if water was fully flowing, half flowing, or now a big trickle on the hot side or cold. Once that is clarified, then one can start figuring out why it is not hot. If water (cold or hot), is not leaving the heater on full flow, that is a problem to sort out first. I asked him to clarify.

I explained my position on my thought process, with pictures even, yet you may still seem to feel I have posted "Misinformation" in bold letters, no less, without asking for clarification. How are you reading all I have posted as "misinformation"?

ncladfw3 wrote:
Ok, turns out it is a propane-only HW heater. Problem solved. thx.

Thanks for reporting back. Glad you have it sorted out. At first, I thought you might have misread LP only, but after checking, yup, you may be right. I had to look this up as I cannot believe they still do this.

On page 7 of the 2019 Coleman Lantern brochure, it states as standard equipment, "6-gallon gas DSI water heater with bypass kit."

Select 2019, then Coleman Lantern

https://www.dutchmen.com/digital-brochure-download


The RV industry continues to amaze me sometimes. Here in 2019, an RV manufacturer installed an LP-only water heater. :h This was common in the '80s, as few electric element options existed; even DSI was the "new thing". I would have thought by 2019; a combo LP/electric heater would be a standard thing. I guess not, live and learn.

Happy camping this season with you new to your camper. Fun times ahead! :C

John

JBarca - A bypass system is used to bypass the water heater so you can run anti-freeze through all the lines (including the hot water lines) without getting anti-freeze in the heater.

Here are three different configurations of a water heater bypass.
All three allow water to pass through the hot water plumbing while bypassing the water heater.

Boon Docker wrote:

JBarca wrote:

ncladfw3 wrote:
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.

Hi,

A few things to confirm and then look for,

1. Confirm this, at any faucet in the camper (bath, shower, kitchen, outside shower etc) at the hot water faucet "only", does any water come out of any faucet? The water may be cold, but knowing if any water comes out helps pinpoint the issue. Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater, just it may not be hot, which is a different problem. No water coming out of any faucet points to the bypass valves are not letting water in, or out, OR a check valve on the hot outlet port of the water heater is defective pending the type of bypass setup you have

2. Please let us know the make and model of the heater. We are assuming you have a tank-type heater, but some campers now have tankless heaters, which are different.

Assuming you have water coming out of hot faucets, just not hot, try this:

3. Make sure the circuit breaker in the power converter is ON for the water heater.

4. If you have an Atwood or Suburban tank-type water heater, they normally have an LP gas mode. Does the LP gas mode work to fire the burner? If the gas side does not fire the burner, the controls can lock out the electric portion. Here is where we need the make/model of the heater to dig deeper.

Make sure there is water in the heater before ANY water heating is started. The electric element can burn out in short order, seconds if there is no water in the heater. If the LP gas mode works, but the electric portion does not, as long as 120 AC power is going to the heater, and the controls are on, the water should heat in about 20 to 30 minutes. The element may be burnt out if 120-volt AC power is getting to the element heater.

The above is sort of generic, we really need to know the heater make and model to help better.

If you do not know how the bypass valves work, post a picture of the back of the heater, and they will tell us how it is piped.


I hope this helps,

John

Reply #1 - Misinformation.

Water will still come out the hot water faucet if the water heater is bypassed.

Hi Boondocker,

Not all campers are created equal. And then there is an interpretation of the meaning. There are at least two types of water heater bypass systems. There may even be more. We do not know which the OP has. My comments came from these two types I often see not knowing what they have.

1. One 3-way valve / one check valve bypass setup. In this setup, there is a 3-way selector valve on the bottom cold inlet to the heater and a check valve only on the hot top discharge port. A bypass pipe connects the selector valve T outlet to the downstream piping of the check valve T. This setup looks like this in general. Different types and brands of valves can be used, pending on the manufacturer.

The yellow arrow points to the Flar-It brand 3-way selector valve on an Atwood water heater.


At the top of the heater on the hot water discharge is a brass outer check valve with a plastic poppet valve stem with an O-ring. You can see the brass fitting here.


In this type of bypass setup, a common failure as the camper ages is the check valve. The keeper on the plastic valve stem pops off and lands inside the tank. The spring on the valve stem pops the valve stem out into the hot water piping system. If the plumbing has a hard 90-degree elbow like in the picture above, that valve stem jams into the elbow and will result in greatly to totally restricting the flow to a dribble.

Here is the keeper on the end of the valve stem that can pop off into the tank




This is the other end of the plastic valve stem that can fly out and jam in a 90-degree elbow




With that valve stem jammed in the elbow, even if the water heater is not bypassed, water is greatly reduced or will only dribble out the hot water faucet.

2. There is also a two-valve bypass setup. In this case, there are two 3-way selector valves on the water heater and no check valve. This setup eliminates the check valve failure, but it can be confusing sometimes to a new owner of this style setup if the top or bottom 3-way valve is not selected correctly. The bottom valve can be in bypass mode, and the top valve still be in the normal operating mode (non-bypass), and no water will flow out of the hot water faucet as the system is only partly bypassed. The combo can be mixed up the other way also, the top in bypass and the bottom not, water sill will not flow to the faucet.

Here is one example of the two, 3-way selector valve set up on the bench when the water heater was being serviced. The brass fittings you see are not check valves; they are brass hex-close nipples.





I have seen enough plastic plunger check valve failures on the first bypass setup to know "it happens." I stand by my troubleshooting advice; water can be greatly restricted to not flowing out of the hot water faucets regardless, the 2 valve setup could be set wrong, the check valve/ one 3-way valve method could be set to not bypass with the check valve failed and no water flows pending the piping setup. The OP stated, no hot water at the faucet, he just never stated water was flowing even if cold or not flowing, or what the bypass condition exactly was.

If you see an issue with my thought process, please let me know. I learn something new all the time, and I am open-minded to listen.

Hope this helps

John