WDH - how much does it reduce tongue weight?

As others have mentioned, the WD hitch does transfer some weight back to the trailer, but, I think you're making a serious mistake, if you buy a tow vehicle that has to rely on weight transfer to get within ratings. If you're really going to do this, make sure you plan for weight of full holding tanks,just in case. There could come a time when you are unable to dump your tanks at the end of your camping. Maybe you have to take your full tanks down the raod a ways, before you can dump. That extra weight might put you over on hitch rating, even with the WDH transfer.

Another thing to consider is, towing at or near max ratings, is quite frequently an unpleasant experience. Very unpleasant, for someone new to towing.

With all the questions you have been asking, you don't appear to be comfortable with operating on the very edge. That's exactly what you would be doing, by counting on WDH weight transfer to get within a rating.

Buy a tow vehicle that gives you some wiggle room, for any unexpected extra weight.

Some folks even count the extra weight of the WDH itself in their tongue weight..

Golden_HVAC wrote:

MargaretB wrote:
Sorry if I"m boring you. I mentioned it here to illustrate what the tow vehicle can handle. I know it's been explained before, but I'm not asking about that here - I'm asking if a good WDH effectively reduces the weight of the hitch. If the vehicle is rated for a 600# hitch and the WDH reduces that from 780# to 548#, is it safe to pull with that vehicle - that's all I want to know.

Yes you are boring me.

If your vehicle can only handle 600 pounds on the hitch, it should not be towing a trailer more than about 5,000 pounds.

Once you find a trailer less than 600# of "Dry" hitch weight, yes you can re-distribute some of that weight off the rear axle onto the trailer and front vehicle axles.

So I was reading a scale read-out on a guy who carefully measured the weights of his trailer while on a CAT scale. It has 4 parts, with the front axle on one section, the rear truck axle on another section, and the trailer axles on one of the other sections. (the CAT scales are designed to weigh 40' - 65' long big rigs up to about 110,000 pounds).

With the WD bars off, then the measurements where made and paid his $6. Then the WD bars tightened, and the trailer took on another 30 pounds. The front axle also went up by about 60 - 75 pounds.

That is all you can expect the WD bars to do with your trailer, not a 30% change. I am guessing that a salesman for the trailer company 'claimed' that 30% can be moved off the hitch? That is sort of an exaggeration. Like saying 'up to 30% can be removed' - well if you started with 1,000 pounds on the hitch and moved 80 pounds to the trailer axles and 185 pounds to the vehicle front axle, you have removed 'up to 30%' - well maybe only 26.5% but it still was up to 30%. Sales double talk. .

With your lighter weight trailer, less weight will actually be moved to the trailer axle, and much less moved to the tow vehicle front axle.

You also need to consider the towing vehicle's length to the trailer length. You don't want to tow a 28' long trailer with a short wheelbase truck or car.

You also need to consider that most cars and F-150 and 1500 series trucks and vans use passenger tires, and those are not so great for towing. Passenger car tires lack the sidewall stiffness of LT tires.

Good luck with your purchase! And don't listen to the salesman's claims that 'this truck or car can tow anything' - usually it is wrong, unless you are driving a dually pickup with a tow package. .

I heard one story about a couple considering a travel trailer, and sitting inside heard the salesman in the next trailer over trying to complete a sale. "Don't worry, your Explorer can tow this trailer, I see it has the optional V8 engine in it". Explorers do not make great tow vehicles, especially the ones built before 2002.

Fred.

Fred,

JFYI and I'm not disputing what you are contending, but on the road trip we are currently on I took the opportunity it do day to day weigh ins each right after fueling with the only change being for the second one I raised the "L" brackets on my Equal-i-zer hitch one hole to transfer more weight off my TV RA to the TV FA. While these were not straight apples to apples conditions since they were 1 day apart very little changed and the overall weight difference was only 20 lbs.
Front TV axle
1st weigh in - 3920
2nd weigh in - 4020
Rear TV axle
1st weigh in - 6100
2nd weigh in - 5920
TT axles
1st weigh in - 6960
2nd weigh in 7020
The dead tongue wt. was 940lbs so one hole on my particular TV/TT combo resulted in 180 lbs xfrd off the rear axle of the TV (19%) and 100 lbs put back on the TV front axle and 60lbs add to the TT axles (20 lbs lost somewhere between the two weigh ins.

Subjectively I could actually tell an overall improvement on how well my combo behaved after moving those "L" brackets up one notch, which sort of suprised me since I didn't think I would see any noticeable difference.

Larry

I would keep the Sequoia over an MB. Less expensive to maintain and arguably a better tow vehicle anyway.

MargaretB wrote:

Lazydude wrote:
Do you have a receiver or is it just a ball on the bumper? If its a receiver how big is the opening. My class 4 hitch has a 2 inch opening and I think class 3's are smaller but I'm not sure how big they are. If you only have a bumper ball 600 pounds sounds like it would be its limit.

The Sequoia had a bumper ball and handled 780#, but that was before we knew there might be a limit to what it could handle, hitch-wise. We never got that information and there wasn't anything in the manual about it. But it towed and handled without any problems.

I'm not sure what a receiver is. But isn't the hitch-weight limit related to TV suspension and frame, rather than bumper ball?

Margaret,

You said & I quote from 10-9-14:
We wound up with a PrimeTimeTracer 230FBS. The quality seemed better than the other units we looked at, and it has a great outside kitchen with BBQ. Not quite as roomy as the island models we liked, but the quality features make up for that. We'll pick it up some time next week, just in time for our shakedown trip next weekend. They'll install the extra gear we need - the brake controller, sway controller, load distribution bar, propane, batteries...

Now you are saying the 2010 Sequoia had a bumper mounted ball hitch & you were pulling a 25' Tracer, without a WDH.

Is that correct ?????? :?

MargaretB wrote:
So we're stuck with 600#, huh?

Yup, no doubt whatsoever.

I'm not knowledgeable about MB, but I do note that Mercedes and BMW share a lot of specifications in a lot of ways, probably due to both being German companies. I have a BMW X5 diesel, which also has 600 lb tongue weight limit, and I note that the only place BMW mentions WD hitches is in the hitch installation instructions, where they forbid the use of a WDH. This, I understand, is due to the body/frame stresses that are higher with such a setup. I am told that in Europe, WDHs are not used, suggesting that it may be also true that a Mercedes ought not be used with a WDH. At the very least, I'd be very cautious and ask a LOT of questions of Mercedes dealers and/or Mercedes car forums on the 'net before I'd attempt using one of them.

That said, and having experience towing with that BMW, which, btw, has self-leveling suspension, a WDH would be quite unnecessary. I don't know if YOUR Merc has such a feature, but I'm pretty certain that Mercedes offers it as an option.

Campfire Time wrote:

MargaretB wrote:

sch911 wrote:
Tongue weight is tongue weight. 100% is still on the tow vehicle. With a WDH it just get's distributed toward the front wheels better. Size your tow vehicle for the full amount and a safety margin.

Thanks. The service manager told us that the WDH would reduce the weight to below acceptable levels. That's why I asked here, to confirm or refute.

WOW! That service manager needs to get into a different line of work!

NEVER accept at face value anything that anybody working for any RV or automobile or truck dealer ever tells you. There is truth in the old joke "how can you tell if a car salesman is lying? His lips are moving."

MargaretB wrote:
Sorry if I"m boring you. I mentioned it here to illustrate what the tow vehicle can handle. I know it's been explained before, but I'm not asking about that here - I'm asking if a good WDH effectively reduces the weight of the hitch. If the vehicle is rated for a 600# hitch and the WDH reduces that from 780# to 548#, is it safe to pull with that vehicle - that's all I want to know.

Yes you are boring me.

If your vehicle can only handle 600 pounds on the hitch, it should not be towing a trailer more than about 5,000 pounds.

Once you find a trailer less than 600# of "Dry" hitch weight, yes you can re-distribute some of that weight off the rear axle onto the trailer and front vehicle axles.

So I was reading a scale read-out on a guy who carefully measured the weights of his trailer while on a CAT scale. It has 4 parts, with the front axle on one section, the rear truck axle on another section, and the trailer axles on one of the other sections. (the CAT scales are designed to weigh 40' - 65' long big rigs up to about 110,000 pounds).

With the WD bars off, then the measurements where made and paid his $6. Then the WD bars tightened, and the trailer took on another 30 pounds. The front axle also went up by about 60 - 75 pounds.

That is all you can expect the WD bars to do with your trailer, not a 30% change. I am guessing that a salesman for the trailer company 'claimed' that 30% can be moved off the hitch? That is sort of an exaggeration. Like saying 'up to 30% can be removed' - well if you started with 1,000 pounds on the hitch and moved 80 pounds to the trailer axles and 185 pounds to the vehicle front axle, you have removed 'up to 30%' - well maybe only 26.5% but it still was up to 30%. Sales double talk. .

With your lighter weight trailer, less weight will actually be moved to the trailer axle, and much less moved to the tow vehicle front axle.

You also need to consider the towing vehicle's length to the trailer length. You don't want to tow a 28' long trailer with a short wheelbase truck or car.

You also need to consider that most cars and F-150 and 1500 series trucks and vans use passenger tires, and those are not so great for towing. Passenger car tires lack the sidewall stiffness of LT tires.

Good luck with your purchase! And don't listen to the salesman's claims that 'this truck or car can tow anything' - usually it is wrong, unless you are driving a dually pickup with a tow package. .

I heard one story about a couple considering a travel trailer, and sitting inside heard the salesman in the next trailer over trying to complete a sale. "Don't worry, your Explorer can tow this trailer, I see it has the optional V8 engine in it". Explorers do not make great tow vehicles, especially the ones built before 2002.

Fred.

MargaretB wrote

"I'm not sure what a receiver is. But isn't the hitch-weight limit related to TV suspension and frame, rather than bumper ball?"

No a bumper ball is the rating for the bumper only and as others have said the receiver will have its own rating and should have a rating with a WDH and with out the WDH.

Back when we had our 21 foot Star Stream we had looked at a Tourag by VW and the hitch on it had a 700lb rating and in the owners manual it specificaly stated that a WDH could not be used. The way the hitch was conceived from the factory was that it had a straight down extension from where it attached to the unibody. Perhaps the MB has a similar type design that has a recomendation in the owners manual for no WDH? That might explain only having a 600lb dead weight rating? Sounds like a good reading of the owners manual in the towing section would be a good start. There must be a MB forum somewhere for the vehicle you are looking at where people who have towed could give some info also.

Mark